Is back counting a viable option?

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#21
gronbog said:
Don Schlesinger discusses several approaches to wonging in BJA3 and gives them names for clarity. The approach of wonging out of negative counts he calls the White Rabbit (running late, gotta go). He analyses the effectiveness of this approach as part of the optimal departure study in the same book.
That White Rabbit discussion in BJA3 was a huge influence in my decision to basically adopt that style of play. But that discussion focuses more on the mathematics (short term winning) of that style of play and I believe unintentionally, misses the huge benefits of such a style of attack on longevity, which of course is the real measure of winning.

What is called the "pure" wong or back counting approach just will not be tolerated for long, IF you can find conditions that allow for it. I mean try wonging into crowded tables. Even if there is a seat or two open, they can disappear just as the count goes good and you want to enter the game. All that work for nothing! :mad:

And IF you find conditions suitable for a "pure" wong in, back counting is just way too obvious. Easy pickings for anyone interested. Might as well be holding a sign.

But playing off the top and wonging out is much more natural. Even if the session is short because the wong out trigger is hit quickly, resulting in a very short session and exit, players do that all the time....table jumpers, players with voodoo mentality like losing 3 hands in a row. All sorts of goofy reasons.

And last but definitely not my least point....as a matter of fact my strongest point. You know that "pure" back counting approach that is very beneficial, but easily recognizable? If you can master that "back counting" of a second table while playing at your table and combine that wong out of negative counts with wong in to a positive count situation at the next table, you really have something powerful. ;)
 
#22
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Yes, thanks Grongog. And I am definitely a white rabbit...so much more natural than standing behind players then suddenly jumping in when the count gets good.
 
#23
KewlJ said:
That White Rabbit discussion in BJA3 was a huge influence in my decision to basically adopt that style of play. But that discussion focuses more on the mathematics (short term winning) of that style of play and I believe unintentionally, misses the huge benefits of such a style of attack on longevity, which of course is the real measure of winning.

What is called the "pure" wong or back counting approach just will not be tolerated for long, IF you can find conditions that allow for it. I mean try wonging into crowded tables. Even if there is a seat or two open, they can disappear just as the count goes good and you want to enter the game. All that work for nothing! :mad:

And IF you find conditions suitable for a "pure" wong in, back counting is just way too obvious. Easy pickings for anyone interested. Might as well be holding a sign.

But playing off the top and wonging out is much more natural. Even if the session is short because the wong out trigger is hit quickly, resulting in a very short session and exit, players do that all the time....table jumpers, players with voodoo mentality like losing 3 hands in a row. All sorts of goofy reasons.

And last but definitely not my least point....as a matter of fact my strongest point. You know that "pure" back counting approach that is very beneficial, but easily recognizable? If you can master that "back counting" of a second table while playing at your table and combine that wong out of negative counts with wong in to a positive count situation at the next table, you really have something powerful. ;)
Ha I do not disagree with your last paragraph...but I just don't play enough, and my tables aren't arranged great to be able to accurately count 2 tables at the same time. Plus I think that is pretty hard to do anyway lol. But if I could, I would! Lol. Just jump back and forth like the ploppies do to whichever table has the better count or a new shuffle.
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#24
What ploppies hate the most are people who Wong-in and Wong-out. In theory, Wonging is a good idea. But in reality, it shortened AP' longevity. Ploppies complained to pit boss. He looked at AP's play. Quickly he knows the AP only plays when count is positive.
 
#25
BJgenius007 said:
What ploppies hate the most are people who Wong-in and Wong-out. In theory, Wonging is a good idea. But in reality, it shortened AP' longevity. Ploppies complained to pit boss. He looked at AP's play. Quickly he knows the AP only plays when count is positive.
Well duh just playing shortens everyone’s longevity, no way around that. We have mostly been discussing the nuances. Wonging out will allow you to put off the tap much longer in most cases.
 

Nightshifter

Well-Known Member
#26
I guess Wonging sounds better than Fergusoning ;) I prefer to track the shuffle (if the shuffle is exploitable in this sense) to get an idea of what's being cut out of play (unless I get to cut obviously...) and start with that as a running out ... gradually fading it off as I approach the middle. Pechanga 6D Hand shuffled typical pattern is a good one...
 

Raven

Well-Known Member
#27
Nightshifter said:
I guess Wonging sounds better than Fergusoning ;) I prefer to track the shuffle (if the shuffle is exploitable in this sense) to get an idea of what's being cut out of play (unless I get to cut obviously...) and start with that as a running out ... gradually fading it off as I approach the middle. Pechanga 6D Hand shuffled typical pattern is a good one...
You ever see 'The Rainman' there? He plays at Pechanga.
 
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