Is there any point?

2

21s

Member
#1
#1
Well since this is my first post I guess will make this an introduction post as well. I am a 21 year old student who recently heard about how its possible to be very successful at blackjack. The more I looked into the ways of counting cards and basic strategy, the more it intrigued me to learn the ways of the game.

I realize blackjack takes a very long time to master so I have been studying the game a lot of late. Reading on here everyday, reading books I have picked up from stores and playing the basic strategy trainer on this website everyday. The game is a lot of fun and I look forward to learning as much as I can.

With all of that said I do want to get my feet wet since I have never really put in any casino time. I have played slots like once in my life and obviously that was a huge waste of time. My question to you guys is, is there any point in going to the casino to play blackjack if all I'm going to use is BS and not CC? I have read from multiple people on this site that all BS does for you is help you lose your money at a slower rate. I have been playing a lot of BS lately and I always win more hands then I lose. Using BS on the trainer for this website I play about 300 hands in one sitting and my win percentage is about 60%. When this happened initially I thought it was just beginners luck but then I continued to play more and more and found consistency.

Im not looking to walk into the casino and come out with 3 grand off BS, since its my first time playing BJ at a casino if I can walk out of there up 100-200 bucks id be happy with that (using only 5-25 dollar bets). So what do you guys think. Is it okay to use BS if I'm only looking to walk in there with 200 bucks and hopefully walk out with 400? Im starting slow. I have a lot to learn and just want to get my feet wet.
 
Daggers

Daggers

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
no, bs only decreases the casino's odds against you to around .5% where they have the advantage. It's only luck so far that you are winning more than losing. I think that the average win to loss is about 45% hands won and 55% hands lost but im not too sure. It's on this site somewhere. In order to gain the advantage, you need to apply some sort of either card counting or other techniques.
 
EarthBowser

EarthBowser

Member
#3
#3
It certainly wouldn't be unheard of to win that much just playing basic strategy, but I wouldn't go in there expecting to win. I would suggest just playing casually or as an experiment, but not to just make money. You're still at a disadvantage when playing BS, you are just lowering that disadvantage considerably. Doubling your bankroll by just using BS might be a little too optimistic, though. You might want to to set your goal a little lower and not be surprised if you still don't reach it.

On a related note, my friend wanted me to teach him basic strategy recently, and lost $300 over a couple trips playing perfect basic strategy and betting conservatively. Don't go in there with the idea that you can't lose with BS.
 
H

HsiaoDi

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
I think if you only go in with 200 dollars, your RoR is really high... Secondly how are you going to determine what is your bet sizes?

I will let you know right now... You're going to hear many people asking those questions.... Bottom line, only play with money that you can lose... And accept you will most likely lose all your bank roll... Good cards...
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#5
#5
21s said:
.... Is it okay to use BS if I'm only looking to walk in there with 200 bucks and hopefully walk out with 400? ...
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If you are willing to rely on hope, sure. But if you want that to be something that is more likely to happen than losing all your money, you need more than hope, you need to play with an advantage.
 
Most Interesting Man

Most Interesting Man

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
21s said:
Is it okay to use BS if I'm only looking to walk in there with 200 bucks and hopefully walk out with 400?
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I believe that if you want to have the best chance of doubling your bet then just go all in. That way you only need to be lucky once...
 
2

21s

Member
#7
#7
Thanks for all the quick responses guys. HsiaoDi the way I would determine bet sizes is I would bet conservatively the whole time. Probably never really bet more than $5 a hand. Just looking to get a casino feel and try my LUCK at BS. With that said this forum isn't about luck its about AP. I have been looking into hi lo and have been running through a deck just simply counting looking to end with 0 which I can do pretty well. As expected I just have more difficulty applying it to the actual game since there is so much more going on. With time I will learn it better but I was just wondering if many people win consistently with just BS. Again not thousands but maybe hundreds.
 
Friendo

Friendo

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
You'll do fine - you're a quick learner

Even though you thought basic strategy could allow you to win, you already know the usual abbreviations of this subculture: "BS", "CC", and "AP".

Something tells me you'll do fine. :rolleyes:
 
2

21s

Member
#9
#9
Friendo said:
Even though you thought basic strategy could allow you to win, you already know the usual abbreviations of this subculture: "BS", "CC", and "AP".

Something tells me you'll do fine. :rolleyes:
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Haha I have been a Lurker
 
T

tthree

Banned
#10
#10
Training

If you are learning HILO try a little in the casino. It has a great BC. Don't spread much since you are just learning the ropes. Use BS unless you know how to do TC conversions. That still won't make it a winning game but should improve your prospects a little while getting you used to what you need to do later.
 
Daggers

Daggers

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
you should be able to count down a deck in about 25 sec and be accurate every time. and also try doing it with music playing, the tv on, and people talking to you.
 
S

swamper

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
I think that if you have never played BJ in a casino environment, playing BS only (if you're not ready to count) would give you some experience. You may find yourself nervous raising bets, or just playing BJ, or whatever. In my opinion going to a casino for the first time playing strictly BS would be a cheap way to get a feel for the environment and get used to the way things work.
 
P

paddywhack

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
swamper said:
In my opinion going to a casino for the first time playing strictly BS would be a cheap way to get a feel for the environment and get used to the way things work.
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May not be all that cheap. BS does lessen the HE but does nothing about the variance, which as well all know, is quite large, even flat betting nickels.
 
2

21gunsalute

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
21s said:
I have been playing a lot of BS lately and I always win more hands then I lose. Using BS on the trainer for this website I play about 300 hands in one sitting and my win percentage is about 60%.
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That trend will not continue! Do not expect to win anywhere near that % when you set foot into a casino. In the long run you should average 42-43%, but when starting out expect a much lower %.
 
M

ms069279

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Most Interesting Man said:
I believe that if you want to have the best chance of doubling your bet then just go all in. That way you only need to be lucky once...
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This is a good point!! Considering while playing BS only, you WILL be playing at a disadvantage and will most certainly run into (-) variance, going "all-in" as suggested, might be your best bet if you're trying to come out ahead.

However, if you're willing to accept a "not-so-expensive" lesson, then you might want to get some "cheap" casino-experience and flat-bet nickels while playing BS. This way you will get a sort of "feel" for all the situations and possible distractions that you will undoubtedly encounter once you begin counting for real.
 
2

21s

Member
#17
#17
Thanks for all the input guys. I plan to go to the casino in the next 2 weeks. For the past week I have been reading and studying Blackjack at least 4 hours a day and count cards for at least 2 of those hours using the hi lo method. Lots to learn but slowly its becoming an obsession..... :eek:
 
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