Issues with playing higher stakes

#1
I played red chips when I started with $15k BR, currently play min. $25 tables. My BR hit $60k this week.

Books advise that you move up as your BR grows. You can play less, have a higher EV.

I cannot see myself being comfortable playing $50 min games or going with a max bet over $250. However, out in the midwest, sometimes on weekend nights, the $25 and lower min. Games are full and the only opportunity to play heads up or with 1-2 other players is in the HL area, particularly in the evenings.

So, I find myself on a Friday or Saturday evening in MS or KC with poor game conditions at $25 or lower minimum tables and I no longer play when tables are mostly full.

Any advice on challenges of moving up, even if on rare occasions? Heat would likely be higher.
 

Midwest Player

Well-Known Member
#2
My suggestion is don't play at peak crowded condition times. On a Friday or Sat night conditions are probably most crowded between 8:00 pm and midnight. Go eat during this time and then take a nap.
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#3
Heat isn't necessarily higher during crowded times.

I myself don't like to play crowded condition. For one, I kind of like banker's hours....being home evenings and weekends. But this career choice sort of means you have to play some evening, weekend and even overnight shifts, just to spread your play around. But I try to minimize evenings and weekends and crowded conditions, as much as possible.

BUT, there is a scenario, where I seek out those crowded conditions. I save it for bigger fight nights and really major holiday weekends like that, but you could go for every Saturday night. While crowded conditions will mean less rounds per hour and some of the other things I like to do, like tracking a second table while playing one, won't be available, the positive that comes from crowded conditions that can offset that, is that I am able to play bigger than usual.

Where my measly $400 max bet might stand out during a weekday, I can jump to $800 at crowded big event times and not even be noticed among several players betting even bigger. I call this playing in the shadows (of other bigger bettors).

Crowded conditions might mean more pit folks and usually the better pit folks (the A team), but they are also busier. They have lots of significant bettors moving in and out that they have to rate and more fills, because of more action etc. There are pros and cons for most situations. Make sure you take advantage of the pros, if you are going to be stuck with the cons.
 
Last edited:
#5
Ryemo said:
You can barely handle the stakes you currently play (psychologically). You’re really considering moving up?
Correct but I can usually get away from family and go out of town on Friday or Saturday afternoons. I get to the casinos around 6-7 p.m., Itching to play. In years past, I would end up playing DD with 3-4 other players and those were not good conditions. I became more selective. So now, if there are crowded conditions, my choice is to play a $25 min DD game with 4-5 spots being played or a $50 game with one other player or heads up.

I think psychologically, I am okay with max bets at $200. This means playing the DD game with a 1-4 spread. Maybe with another player at table, I can take phone calls or bathroom breaks in deep negative counts, ramp up to $150 at TC2, max bet of $200 at TC3? Don't know if I can handle it.
 

Midwest Player

Well-Known Member
#6
ZeeBabar said:
My BR hit $60k this week.
Zee, the last time your reported I think you mentioned your bankroll was around $54,000. You must have had a big win recently. Did it happen in KC? Do you like the KC area better than STL area or Tunica?
 
#7
Midwest Player said:
Zee, the last time your reported I think you mentioned your bankroll was around $54,000. You must have had a big win recently. Did it happen in KC? Do you like the KC area better than STL area or Tunica?
During this month, I am up $8k. Though, it's really good variance as I have won most of my sessions. At present, I like the KC area because I am known in the St. Louis area and have been playing a long time with players card. A couple of incidents have made me cautious in St. Louis area. In KC, I can play anonymously. I rate MO casinos higher than Tunica. Found a couple of good games in small single casino towns where I won $4k plus. Had bad rules but deep dealt games.

Be going to Las Vegas and San Diego next week for family vacation. Doubt I will play more than 20 hours the rest of the month.
 
#8
Yes, according to the kelly criterion you can afford a much higher top bet . BUT that's assuming you're playing a perfect game. From the few posts I've read of yours, that doesn't seem to be the case. I would not move up in stakes if I were you until I was 100% sure my game was airtight.
 
#9
It's really a tribute to the members of this forum and the other two, Don S., And the archives because I never really practiced at home, hardly used software, read a lot of books but most were about the journey rather than playing strategies (this were from forum archives and sites). I just asked questions, multiple times, did not back off despite all the attempts to humiliate me and hung in there.

I made no attempts to be perfect,still make playing mistakes and have learned that those don't cost nearly as much as betting mistakes, game selection, etc. Personal psychological growth (dealing with loses, handling wins, playing within comfort zones) is essential too and this only comes with hours out in a casino environment, not playing with fake chips at home.

This is only my 3rd year. First year was a winner due to variance, second was a losing year and this third year is where I feel a growing confidence.

However, you and others are right. I am probably not ready so I will only try higher stakes when lower tables are not available and see how it goes. Most likely, if I lose the first 2-3 times, I will quit but like when I moved up from red chips to $25 tables, if I do okay, I will only occasionally play till I get comfortable.
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#10
"Most likely, if I lose the first 2-3 times, I will quit but like when I moved up from red chips to $25 tables, if I do okay, I will only occasionally play till I get comfortable."

You have to wonder what percentage of all the greatest inventions on the face of the earth would have never seen the light of day if the inventor had your attitude. "Lose two or three times and then quit" -- yeah, that airplane will never fly! Silly you. Did you not fall down two or three times when you first learned to ride a bike?

Don
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#11
ZeeBabar said:
However, you and others are right. I am probably not ready so I will only try higher stakes when lower tables are not available and see how it goes. Most likely, if I lose the first 2-3 times, I will quit but like when I moved up from red chips to $25 tables, if I do okay, I will only occasionally play till I get comfortable.
Zee, I hate that I am becoming one of those guys that only seems to have negative things to say about you. BUT, this is just a bad plan! :(

Part of this game...a big part of this game is preparation. You haven't seemed to prepare and plan correctly at any stage. And yet you apparently have had some success. o_O Despite that success, one could argue that the real value of you in this community so far, would be a blueprint to the younger / newer guys of what not to do.

Zee, if you are serious about this game it is time, make that long past time, to really be serious and plan and prepare and stop just depending on 'dumb' luck for your success. You seem to put in some time and travel, why not add preparation and really give yourself the best chance to succeed (long-term)?
 
#12
Kewlj, perhaps the fact that I make playing mistakes has helped my longevity. A real pro probably always splits 4's against that 5, always makes correct adjustments and hits that 12 or 13 when the count calls for it.

In any case, I played, posted what I did and forum guys pointed out what I should have done, I learned, for example, early on, I was not splitting 9's against an 8 or 9, I shared it, folks made fun of it and basically said "You idiot, split them". I learned.

In any case, my counting is very good and so is my deck estimation. Biggest improvements have been game selection. Many things I learnt from playing in a casino. The OP was about playing $50 games and I have to find out how I will handle that HL environment. When I first moved up from red chips to Green, I was often under betting, reluctant about increasing max bet from $80 to 2 x $150 but eventually became comfortable. Maybe the same process is ahead of me.
 
#14
ThePointWhisperer said:
I'd say your longevity probably has more to do with you not being considered a threat.
Is that not great! If I can continue to earn $30k a year without being considered a threat, I will take it. My social security and pension is good enough to live on and the BJ income is gravy.
 
#15
Seeing your guys bankroll is crazy to me haha. Unless you guys have high paying jobs, do you guys put money on the side for BJ bankroll like 30k 40k? I honestly go in with 2k at the most, but play 5 min with 1-10 spread (never been backed off yet).
 
#16
Trip bankroll and total bankroll are different. I generally bring about 10% of my total bankroll per trip. My total roll is 120 max bets, I'll bring 12-15 max bets to the casino
 
Top