K-O Concensus Needed: Adjust The IRC or Not?

[Finn Dog]

Greetings Fellow K-O Counters:

Wondering what has worked for you (and what hasn't) as some K-O Preferred questions have arisen after reading the book and buying the K-O specific software (version 2.5):

1. Do you recommend adjusting KO's IRC of -20 for a 6 deck game (so you're not dealing with so many negative numbers and starting at such a deficit--or do you play it by the book)?

If you do adjust:

(a.) What's your new 6D IRC--and what would the 6D Key Count of -4 and the Pivot Point of +4 change to?

(b.) What would the 6D Exit Strategy of -22 after 1 deck, -17 after 2 decks, and -12 after 3 decks change to?

(c.) What do the index values of the Preferred Strategy Matrix on p. 85 adjust to?


2. Do you spread 1:10 on 6D as the authors' recommend?

3. Any other advice?

Thanks in advance!

FD

 

[FLASH1296]

K.O. Advice

Play the Preferred Indices.
Follow the Book's suggestions, except -
Spread AT LEAST 12 to 1 in 6 deckers and AT LEAST 16 to 1 in 8 deckers.
Just double the number of decks and that will give you your max' bet.
More than that and you will risk being shown the door.
Your Bankroll can be estimated by multiplying your Max Bet times 100.
Thus, if you are playing $25 tables, you need to have, on your person, $30,000 in cash.
Less than that will generate a "Risk-of-Ruin" that may be as high as 33% or even 40% !
Aaargh !
If you cannot afford that, drop to a lower level of play.

K.O. is a rather weak, but very easy-to-employ, system.
If you are making bet-sizing and playing errors, you are NOT playing with an advantage over the house.
As such, you cannot afford to play it with a narrow spread. That would be playing it "weakly".
The spread that I have advised is a mild but adequate one, but it will "get the money" in the long run.
Unfortunately, "the long run" is ever elusive as we never live long enough to so much as see it on the horizon;
meaning that our advantage is small, real, but quasi-chimerical.​

 

[callipygian]

1. Do you recommend adjusting KO's IRC of -20 for a 6 deck game (so you're not dealing with so many negative numbers and starting at such a deficit--or do you play it by the book)?

I briefly flirted with K-O; I didn't adjust the IRC, but adding and subtracting negative numbers is not a problem for me, so I completely understand if people do.

If you do adjust:

(a.) What's your new 6D IRC--and what would the 6D Key Count of -4 and the Pivot Point of +4 change to?

(b.) What would the 6D Exit Strategy of -22 after 1 deck, -17 after 2 decks, and -12 after 3 decks change to?

(c.) What do the index values of the Preferred Strategy Matrix on p. 85 adjust to?

The answer is the same for all three questions. If you start with an IRC of 0 instead of -20, then add 20 to whatever the numbers are now. The Key count, Pivot Point, exit point, and strategy changes are all defined as a certain count above your IRC.

You can set the IRC to whatever you want, and just keep the distances between these values constant.

So, if you're a sadist and want to start your IRC at 5,462, then your Key Count will be 5,462+20+(-4) = 5,478. The distance between your Key Count and your IRC remains the same (16). Your Pivot will be 5,462+20+(+4) = 5,486. The distance between the pivot and the IRC remains the same (24).

 

[Diver]

Bankroll

Your Bankroll can be estimated by multiplying your Max Bet times 100.
Thus, if you are playing $25 tables, you need to have, on your person, $30,000 in cash.
Less than that will generate a "Risk-of-Ruin" that may be as high as 33% or even 40% !.​

I'm not under the impression you'd carry your entire bankroll with you for a session or even a trip. Perhaps I'm mistaken. I've been using a rule of thumb of a max bet at 1% of total bankroll; then I back down from there to have an acceptable bet spread. In some DD games I play, the table max is less than what my ideal max would be, so I have to adjust my minimum to maintain a decent spread.

 

[QFIT]

K.O. is a rather weak, but very easy-to-employ, system.​

Actually, KO is quite strong.

 

[Finn Dog]

I'm not under the impression you'd carry your entire bankroll with you for a session or even a trip. Perhaps I'm mistaken. I've been using a rule of thumb of a max bet at 1% of total bankroll; then I back down from there to have an acceptable bet spread. In some DD games I play, the table max is less than what my ideal max would be, so I have to adjust my minimum to maintain a decent spread.

Diver/Others: what percent of one's 100X max bet bankroll would you recommend carrying with you on a trip to make sure you don't go broke? Also, what about using a marker so as not to carry so much cash--is a person safe using a marker with a 1:12 spread on 6 decks--either at one's "Home Casino" or another?

Thank you,

FD

 

[callipygian]

what about using a marker in one's "Home Casino" (where ample slot play may mitigate the heat!)?

I think your question should be a little more fundamental than that - I'm no expert but I understand there's a variety of opinions on whether you should play advantage blackjack at your "home casino" at all.

 

[ChefJJ]

Finn Dog,

I adjust the KO IRC, KC, & PP so that regardless of the number of decks, the KC is 0. I don't have an issue adding and subtracting negative numbers, so this adjustment tells me to start spreading when the count is "out of the red".

good luck

 

[blackchipjim]

KOer

I personally recommend buying the book for reference and future study, it is simple to understand and has more indices to use. I use the system with some tweeking on certain things and have good results. It affords me the nescessary ease to employ much needed camoflage in my jungle. I agree with Mr Qfit on the strength and how it correlates to strength/accuracy/bet sizing. blackchipjim

 

[ChefJJ]

I personally recommend buying the book for reference and future study, it is simple to understand and has more indices to use. I use the system with some tweeking on certain things and have good results. It affords me the nescessary ease to employ much needed camoflage in my jungle. I agree with Mr Qfit on the strength and how it correlates to strength/accuracy/bet sizing. blackchipjim

Couldn't be said any better.

good luck

 

[kewljason]

Your Bankroll can be estimated by multiplying your Max Bet times 100.
Thus, if you are playing $25 tables, you need to have, on your person, $30,000 in cash.



Unfortunately, "the long run" is ever elusive as we never live long enough to so much as see it on the horizon;

where did you come up with this non-sense. Noone in their right mind would carry their entire bankroll with them. I bring 25% of my bankroll, to the table with me. Even if I am on a week long trip, In this day and age of "national banks" (bank of america among others) There is a branch in most casino destinations.

The "long run is 30,000 to 50,000 hands". I play 1000-1200 hours a year and come very close to my expected value each and every year.

 

[Finn Dog]

I personally recommend buying the book for reference and future study, it is simple to understand and has more indices to use. I use the system with some tweeking on certain things and have good results. It affords me the nescessary ease to employ much needed camoflage in my jungle. I agree with Mr Qfit on the strength and how it correlates to strength/accuracy/bet sizing. blackchipjim

Blackchipjim:

I've already bought the book and the K-O specific software (version 2.5) and am using the K-O Preferred Strategy Matrix with its 12 indices (on page 85).

Curiously, I noticed the authors' opinion of the Full Knock-Out System (on page 161) with all the additional matrix entries isn't very high. They say "while there's a gain in performance, we don't believe it warrants the extra effort". Well what's wrong with extra performance for a little extra effort? Sort of an oxymoron I'd say. What do you (or anyone else) think of their advice?

Also, should I stick with K-O Preferred till I'm proficient and successful and only then learn the additional matrix entries on page 161--or are they in fact not worth it?

Thanks again!

FD

 

[ChefJJ]

Curiously, I noticed the authors' opinion of the Full Knock-Out System (on page 161) with all the additional matrix entries isn't very high. They say "while there's a gain in performance, we don't believe it warrants the extra effort". Well what's wrong with extra performance for a little extra effort? Sort of an oxymoron I'd say. What do you (or anyone else) think of their advice?
FD

They're only worth it if you think they are

Seriously though, the Preferred method has the most frequent playing indices based on only 2 count points (3 if you count the insurance point as well). These indices are very strong without the rest, which require making moves at different count points.

My recommendation: get VERY comfortable playing in the casino with KO Preferred then make the decision to learn the Full set of indices. One step at a time.

good luck

 

[blackchipjim]

ko eh!

Mr finn dog the playing effieciency comes from betting not all the indices. Slight variations from bs such as the insurance and the stand on faces gives you a good start. The system gains are from proper betting at the appropriate counts. Black jack attack by Don S. is a good read that gives you additional ammo for your game. I use a blend of tatics to make ko preform for my style of play. Good luck on your game. blackchipjim

 

[Kasi]

Diver/Others: what percent of one's 100X max bet bankroll would you recommend carrying with you on a trip to make sure you don't go broke? FD

Well, as you can guess lol, it depends on the game you will be playing. The length of playing time on a trip is also a big factor. If you know what to expect from your game, all that pesky EV & SD stuff, you can figure it out or use one of those trip calculators.

If you don't want to bother with all that, do what Flash says and just bring it all everytime despite, perhaps like him, knowing achieving "long-run" is an impossibility in this lifetime.

 

[zengrifter]

YES. Adjust IRC to the starting #decks. zg

 

[Finn Dog]

YES. Adjust IRC to the starting #decks. zg

Why adjust the KO IRC to the starting number of decks vs 0 for example--what's the benefit in adjusting to the starting # of decks per se?

Do you mean take the standard KO 6D IRC of -20 and adjust it to +6 (so there's a +26 difference in the Key Counts--namely, -4 vs +22?).

Thanks again,

FD