KO to HI-LO: Should I do it?

StandardDeviant

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
Yes, I know they produce nearly equivalent results...

I've been using KO for about nine months now. I find it easy, but I don't really like it because I don't find it as intuitive as HiLo. By "intuitive" I mean it's not intuitive to me that TC=+1 is the approximately the same as RC=-14 in 6D KO with IRC -20 off the top of the shoe.

Yes, I know I could true count KO, but why not just true count HiLo instead? Since more has been written about HiLo, I think I might enjoy using HiLo more.

I'm headed to the casino tomorrow and thought I might try HiLo with small bets and a very simple ramp of high bets at TC~=+1, minimum bets at TC~=0, and wong out at TC<-1. Then as I get better at TC conversions I can return to normal bet ramps.

Am I crazy to give this a try?

Those of you who have converted from KO to a balanced count, how'd it go?

And again, I know that KO and HiLo produce approximately equal results. I don't want to debate their strengths. I'm just interested if people feel that HiLo gives them a better feel for the game than an unbalanced count.
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
I switched about 3 years ago, primarily because that's when I started playing Sp21 and I wanted to use the same tags for both. I true counted KO and it was a bit of a pain, remembering the different IRCs, etc for differing numbers of decks. Also, Playing with a partner and being passed a count when signaled in, it's easier to deal with HiLo than reverse engineer a running count in KO. In retrospect, I'm glad I did it. Was not hard at all.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
I'd suggest reading The Color of Blackjack, an interesting booklet that fine tunes TKO. It might be just what you are looking for. It's a bit expensive for a thin little booklet, but one tip contained in it caused me to recognize a flaw in my game that potentially cost me several times the cost of the book each vacation.
 
StandardDeviant

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
Back!

Just got back from my first foray into Hi-Lo. I played about 8 hours over the weekend at 3 casinos. Maintaining the count was fairly easy, and as I thought I would, I liked Hi-Lo better than KO. There's just something about the count swinging from positive to negative and back, that makes me feel like I have a better feel for what's going on. I also liked that the RC was frequently in single digits, instead of numbers like -25.

TC conversion wasn't so bad, although I was just doing full deck conversions. I found that I really didn't have to divide at all. I just needed to have a general idea of how many decks were left in the shoe, and then I would think of the running count as multiples of the remaining decks. For example, if there were 4 decks remaining, and the RC was 5, 6, or 7, I used a TC of 1 since the RC hadn't reached the next multiple of 4.

I had a reasonably successful outing including one great shoe where I hit most of the big bets at a relatively high TC. I was down 50 units at the start of that shoe and up 50 units at the end. I think that was the most successful high count experience I've had to date. (I know it doesn't have anything to do with HiLo v KO.)

I didn't have any indices memorized, so I was sort of using KO Preferred indices. If the TC was >= 3, I used the KO Preferred play.

So I think I am a convert...
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
Well, you already know and have stated that Hi-lo and KO are similar in strength and will produce similar results, so it's really about playing whatever you are most comfortable with. good luck and continued success.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
If you are inclined to switch counts, why not move to a powerful (Level Two) Count, e.g. ZEN or R.P.C. ?
 
StandardDeviant

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
If you are inclined to switch counts, why not move to a powerful (Level Two) Count, e.g. ZEN or R.P.C. ?
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Maybe someday, but it seems like too much now. I don't think the incremental gain is worth the pain right now. Maybe I'll feel differently at some other point.

I am open to be convinced otherwise, but I'm only about a year into this, so I think I should concentrate on other things first. No?
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
StandardDeviant said:
Maybe someday, but it seems like too much now. I don't think the incremental gain is worth the pain right now. Maybe I'll feel differently at some other point.

I am open to be convinced otherwise, but I'm only about a year into this, so I think I should concentrate on other things first. No?
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As one who made the switch to level 2 for 18 month before switching back to hi-lo, I couldn't agree more with you, especially if you play mostly shoe games. Flash and I disagree on this point, I know.

My thinking, spend your time, perfecting your game and learning to play your level one count as best you can. Maybe mix in some other methods of AP, when you are ready, and you will do just as well. Now thats if you are primarily a multideck player. If you play single deck, I can see the advantage in learning a higher count.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
StandardDeviant said:
Yes, I know I could true count KO, but why not just true count HiLo instead? Since more has been written about HiLo, I think I might enjoy using HiLo more.
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TCKO is stronger than HiLo... and MOST of what has been written about HiLo is redundant.
Go with TCKO and keep counting those 7s. zg
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
You find adding 2+2 and 4+4 more daunting than adding 1+1 and 2+2? zg
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But it's not JUST about adding 1+1 or 2+2. My experience is that there is alot of glancing at cards and having cards cancel each other out and that doesn't happen quite a quickly with multi-level counts.
 
StandardDeviant

StandardDeviant

Well-Known Member
kewljason said:
My thinking, spend your time, perfecting your game and learning to play your level one count as best you can.
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This is exactly how I am thinking about it!

Once I am convinced that I've milked all I can from my level one count, then maybe I'll go further -- for the fun and challenge of it. But I've got a long, long way to go before I'll feel that I've squeezed all from HiLo.
 
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