KO vs. Hi/Lo

Nuh-vad-uh

Nuh-vad-uh

Active Member
#1
#1
I took a little bit of time scouring through the Qfit website trying to figure this out but it still is a little bit fuzzy. I am not sure really what the point is of using Hi/Lo other than single deck? Both are equally as easy to learn and implement and KO has a slight slight slight advantage? Why is Hi/Lo so popular still today?
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
The Standard

Nuh-vad-uh said:
I took a little bit of time scouring through the Qfit website trying to figure this out but it still is a little bit fuzzy. I am not sure really what the point is of using Hi/Lo other than single deck? Both are equally as easy to learn and implement and KO has a slight slig slight advantage? Why is Hi/Lo so popular still today?
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Hi Lo I believe has been around longer. A lot of studies and literature around regarding Hi Lo. I guess you can call it the benchmark.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Nuh-vad-uh said:
I took a little bit of time scouring through the Qfit website trying to figure this out but it still is a little bit fuzzy. I am not sure really what the point is of using Hi/Lo other than single deck? Both are equally as easy to learn and implement and KO has a slight slight slight advantage? Why is Hi/Lo so popular still today?
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Actually, KO is not better. The 7 doesn't have nearly as strong of an effect of removal, and the count is unbalanced, so it causes you to underbet at the beginning of a shoe, and underbet late.

It's pretty marginal, though, so do whatever you want. If you're shuffle tracking, Hi-Lo is pretty much the only way to get.
 
golfnut101

golfnut101

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
and the count is unbalanced, so it causes you to underbet at the beginning of a shoe, and underbet late.
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That should be overbet at the end of a shoe. But, their are ways around that. You can true count it, or, make adjustments to your ramp accordingly. Unless you are planning on using more advanced techniques, KO, KISS, or Red 7 would be a wise choice for a beginner. But yes, hi-lo is clearly the benchmark system.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
The reason most people use HiLo is because most people think it's the only strategy that exists when they start.
 
R

rogue1

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Why mess around with converting running counts to true counts when using KISS III with a simple running count definitely gets the money?
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
Any of the counts mentioned in this thread are good. Really, it's just a matter of preference. Get a count you can use, learn your indices, and spend your time winning money.
 
C

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
The biggest advantage of Hi-Lo, in my opinion, is that it's the most versatile. It's the best system for Wonging out, Wonging in, and shuffle tracking. To do any of these with unbalanced systems, you need to learn deck estimation, which undermines the biggest strength of unbalanced counts.

The second biggest advantage is that almost all the numbers that are published on the Web are for Hi-Lo true counts. So if you want to maximize what you can learn off of free sources, Hi-Lo is the easiest.
 
Nuh-vad-uh

Nuh-vad-uh

Active Member
#9
#9
I see what you are saying especially when it comes to Indices for K-O. I had a very hard time finding online the indices for K-O but I found plenty for Hi/Lo which was disturbing at first.
 
golfnut101

golfnut101

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
callipygian said:
The biggest advantage of Hi-Lo, in my opinion, is that it's the most versatile. It's the best system for Wonging out, Wonging in, and shuffle tracking. To do any of these with unbalanced systems, you need to learn deck estimation, which undermines the biggest strength of unbalanced counts.

The second biggest advantage is that almost all the numbers that are published on the Web are for Hi-Lo true counts. So if you want to maximize what you can learn off of free sources, Hi-Lo is the easiest.
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Just wondering on a couple of your comments callipygian; To even suggest shuffle tracking to a newcomer who does not even have bs down pat, is like asking a high school player to take on Michael Jordan. The kid might have a huge upside; looks like he may move on to the next level even. But to mention to him prematurely that he will have to match up against a seasoned pro, is a bit much. Challenging him to master the fundamentals FIRST,then when the time is right, introduce him to more advanced skills seems to me to serve him better. Also, a book for $10-$15 makes it too hard to learn an unbalanced count? Renzeys book on KISS III, the Bishops Blackbelt in Blackjack for the Red 7 count, or KO seems like a small price to pay for knowledge that will get you well on your way as a counter. If someone is serious about learning advanced skills, switching to a balanced count would be a breeze. Lets make sure we instill the mind set of work ethic that will allow the newcomer to master the fundamentals of the game, so she/he does not get frustrated with this game, and inevitably give up. Im not saying unbalanced is the way to go; if you can learn hi-lo easy enough fom the get go, good for you. But for most I would think, an unbalanced count is like training wheels for the first time bike rider-lets you feel like you can do it !
 
M

mk1

Active Member
#11
#11
i'd agree with golfnut101 since using the ko count its been a pretty good ride when at the casino. but than again each one to his own.
 
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