Legal documentation?

[NightStalker]

Consider a case where an investor giving money to a player to play specific game with specific rules? Which all legal documentation is required by investor to fund the player? Any experiences, stories,trust about investors lending money to players?

Which all things investor should ask player to submit before handing over money to play:
1) photo copy of Id
2) photo copy of Credit card
3) Anything else?

Any pointers will be appreciated..

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I think a photo copy of a Credit Card is a little much

 

[johndoe]

I think that if you need to resort to these kinds of securities, you have nowhere near sufficient trust to bank the player.

If you must, have a clear and concise contract, reliable contact / personal information, and trustworthy witnesses. The reputations of all involved are paramount.

The credit card is useless. Even if you do have the ability to charge a CC (i.e. you're a vendor), good luck getting the credit card company to honor the charge after it's disputed by the player - assuming they haven't canceled the card already anyhow..

 

[fubster]

zero chance i'd ever ask anyone to put up a credit card.

keep in mind, unless you get a contract drawn up by a professional, there's virtually zero chance it holds up in court.

 

[NightStalker]

As per my legal insurance agent

it is wise to collect as much information as possible and I certainly agree

 

[Dyepaintball12]

zero chance i'd ever ask anyone to put up a credit card.

keep in mind, unless you get a contract drawn up by a professional, there's virtually zero chance it holds up in court.

Why is that?

A written contract between two parties is still a contract.

 

[moo321]

Make sure you write down exactly what your expectations are, and work with people you trust.

 

[fubster]

Why is that?

A written contract between two parties is still a contract.

There's a ton of ways to get out of a contract, and if it's not professionally written, it will almost certainly not stand up in court.

 

[johndoe]

There's a ton of ways to get out of a contract, and if it's not professionally written, it will almost certainly not stand up in court.

I don't think that's true at all.

If it's very poorly written, sure, there are sometimes ways to wiggle out of it. But a reasonably concisely written contract, even one not drafted by a lawyer, will hold up just fine.

Just remember that if there are any ambiguities, they will be seen as favoring the party that did not write the contract.

 

[palroot]

Why is that?

A written contract between two parties is still a contract.

Very true, any agreement between two parties contstitutes a legal contract. However, any contract is only as binding on the parties as it is thorough in spelling out expectations, metrics, consequences and penalties. A proffesional contract, prepared by someone well versed in all the legal nuances, is much less likely to have the inevitable loop-holes in it that an amateur contract might. Contract loop-holes are easy to exploit and difficult to enforce when one party breaches their agreement. The reason alot of legal documents have to be so extensive is that every conceivable beach and consequence needs to be clearly stated to avoid those loopholes.

 

[fubster]

Just remember that if there are any ambiguities, they will be seen as favoring the party that did not write the contract.

This is exactly WHY it's true.

I'm not saying written agreements aren't a useful tool, I'm just making the point that you shouldn't have the mindset of "well, we have a contract so I'm safe" because that could lead to a rude awakening in a courtroom.

 

[Sucker]

Any experiences, stories,trust about investors lending money to players?

I've allowed people to invest in my play hundreds of times over the years and I've invested in other people's play. No one has ever bothered to ask me to sign anything, or for any documentation whatsoever. Heck; half the time they don't even know my REAL name. But I HAVE built an impeccable reputation for honesty over the years, and these investors are aware of that.

And as to the other point that's being discussed, I once DID have a BP investor try to get away with not paying me MY share of a big win. I took him to court & won, even though we had nothing more than a verbal agreement, and the only prima facia evidence that I had going for me was a couple of e-mails from him agreeing to the arrangement that we had.

Of course, it IS always the best policy to get a contract in writing, and it's a good idea to cross all the t's & dot the i's, but when it comes down to it, a verbal contract IS legally binding in every state of the U.S..

 

[MeWin$]

I call BS Fubster. I think you probably heard that on a TV show or something, and have no real knowledge or experience with contract law.

 

[fubster]

I've had to deal with a lot of them, but alright. I don't really watch much TV anyway.

It's not even really an argument, you can just look it up if you want.

 

[NightStalker]

Do you have a copy?

And as to the other point that's being discussed, I once DID have a BP investor try to get away with not paying me MY share of a big win. I took him to court & won, even though we had nothing more than a verbal agreement, and the only prima facia evidence that I had going for me was a couple of e-mails from him agreeing to the arrangement that we had.

Of course, it IS always the best policy to get a contract in writing, and it's a good idea to cross all the t's & dot the i's, but when it comes down to it, a verbal contract IS legally binding in every state of the U.S..

Does anyone have a copy (looking for more formal one) of any investor - player contract?

Thanks
NS

 

[pit15]

I've allowed people to invest in my play hundreds of times over the years and I've invested in other people's play. No one has ever bothered to ask me to sign anything, or for any documentation whatsoever. Heck; half the time they don't even know my REAL name. But I HAVE built an impeccable reputation for honesty over the years, and these investors are aware of that.

And as to the other point that's being discussed, I once DID have a BP investor try to get away with not paying me MY share of a big win. I took him to court & won, even though we had nothing more than a verbal agreement, and the only prima facia evidence that I had going for me was a couple of e-mails from him agreeing to the arrangement that we had.

Of course, it IS always the best policy to get a contract in writing, and it's a good idea to cross all the t's & dot the i's, but when it comes down to it, a verbal contract IS legally binding in every state of the U.S..

How could he refuse to pay you your share of the win? Presumably you had possession of the money, in which case you don't give him any of it.

 

[Koz1984]

I am a law student, although I am well versed in contract law having studied it for about half a year. Contracts merely require 5 things to be deemed a contract...Offer, acceptance, consideration, intention and certainty.

So, a properly written contract must contain the offer, which, I assume, would be made by the investors to the players to play x amount of hours in order to receive x amount of dollars/hr. Therein lies the consideration too. There would probably be no issue with intention to form a legal relationship, and so long as the terms are not too vague, certainty should not be an issue.

Of course, terms would have to be drawn relating to the way the investors wish to have the players play. i.e They are to follow BS, bet x at x counts etc. How many hours are they to play? This is almost like an employment contract actually.

It would be quite an interesting contract to write up.

Any ambiguities would be assessed by court, should it actually go there in the event of any arguments about it. Again, courts have certain rules about construing terms.

 

[aslan]

I wonder if the fact that the contract is for "gambling" services, if some courts wouldn't look at it with a jaundiced eye. Most non-APs tend to look down on gamblers and gambling, even if they do some themselves on vacations to Las Vegas or on cruise ships. How this would play out in court, or whether a gambling agreement would receive equal justice under the law, I have no idea. All I am saying is that I would feel uncomfortable taking such a contract to court.

Personally, I don't like to enter into any contract with anyone unless I feel comfortable with a simple handshake. Any other basis for business deals seems to beg for "advantaging" the other party or finding beneficial loopholes to escape liabilities or risks in the arrangement. There is really no substitute for honor in business dealings.

I don't dispute the fact that skilfully putting things in writing makes it perfectly clear to all parties to an agreement exactly what is expected of each of them.

 

[pit15]

I wonder if the fact that the contract is for "gambling" services, if some courts wouldn't look at it with a jaundiced eye. Most non-APs tend to look down on gamblers and gambling, even if they do some themselves on vacations to Las Vegas or on cruise ships. How this would play out in court, or whether a gambling agreement would receive equal justice under the law, I have no idea. All I am saying is that I would feel uncomfortable taking such a contract to court.

Personally, I don't like to enter into any contract with anyone unless I feel comfortable with a simple handshake. Any other basis for business deals seems to beg for "advantaging" the other party or finding beneficial loopholes to escape liabilities or risks in the arrangement. There is really no substitute for honor in business dealings.

I don't dispute the fact that skilfully putting things in writing makes it perfectly clear to all parties to an agreement exactly what is expected of each of them.

I wouldn't deal with anyone either unless I felt a simple handshake was sufficient. I WOULD however put the terms in writing so both me and the other party are clear on everything, and in case somebody doesn't remember or isn't clear on the terms in the future. If I felt the need to make the document be able to stand up in court, I would just not do the deal.

 

[Koz1984]

A contract could be deemed void for illegality, but as we all know here, CC is NOT illegal. So a contract drawn up purely to govern how a counting team would work would hold up in court as easily as any regular contract.