Licking my wounds :( - Need Guiding Hand

S

ScouseVinney

New Member
#1
#1
Hiya everyone,
Am Anthony from the UK.

I've signed up on the site to assist my journey on BJ math and strategy, after blowing $500 on Party Pokers BJ table :mad:. I was $400 up at one point due to shear luck, but as am young and stupid i ended up trying to chase my looses to no avail - a swing of $900 - ouch. :|

You'll probably relived to know, i've unistalled the software from my machine, and promised myself never to make the same mistake again.

( i gather you here this a lot from newbies hey? hehe )

So due my last escapade, it safe to say I haven't got much of a clue about BJ. Some terminology i am a little sketchy on too.

Does anyone have any useful links / posts, books / where i should start regarding BJ and strategies for a newbie like myself? Eventually i'll learn counting methods too .... But i don't want to attempt to run before i can walk again.

Hopefully someone will have something for me to get stuck into right away.

Thanks
Ant. :joker:
 
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Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Here

ZG has given you some of the best advise one can give to a new BJ player! Your first endevor should be to do whatever it takes to learn Basic Strategy, especially for the format of the game you will be playing (6-deck, 2-deck, etc) Even if your goal is to master card-counting, you still must know Basic Strategy.

ZG also pointed you to a link for practice under the table conditions you'll be attacking. You specify those conditions and then apply the strategy.

If you have questions, certainly you should post them here. The group of folks here on this site are ready to help anyone sincere in their quest.
 
C

Clicker

Member
#4
#4
Your not alone

I decided to post on your string because your title fit my feelings so well.
The reason I am licking my wounds and neeing help is this.
I built my gambling account up to $1200 from $120. Not much money to some but alot to me.
I went for two sessions and came back broke.
I am not a counter but I follow basic strategy to the letter. (Regardless of other players comments and jeers)
What I think killed me is two things.
The first is the machine.
The second is not knowing how to bet properly.
I switched tables, seats, sat out, filled empty spots, you name it.
My worst run was 43 hands and not catching one hand.
You can tell how I am rambling that it hurt more than my pocket book.
Help - I don't want to be a crap shooter at a BJ table.
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Clicker....I'm not sure what you mean by being beaten by "the machine." Were you playing at a table or were you playing a BJ video game?

You should have established some sort of loss threshold and walked away...walked away from the table, from the casino and from the STATE WAY before you lost 43 hands in a row!

43 in a row! I've never heard of a run like that. I hate to even think what the odds are on that happening. But regardless, you should have left long before it happened to you so "Yes", you definitely need to refine your system of betting.
 
C

Clicker

Member
#6
#6
CSMs at Winstar in OK. Table play.
I left each table after dropping 200. Shock seemed to have set in. Now thats all of the sad stuff.
Its back to what do I know? - Evidently not much.
What did I learn? - That other than the worse run in my life I didn't know how to bet to recover when I did win.
You said that was the worse run you ever heard of. Okay now I feel worse besides broke.
When do you quit a table?
When do you increase your base bet?
I don't have the luxury of sitting down at tables of hand shuffling less than four hours away.
What is the longest dealer run you can expect before.
I felt upto now that I was doing well.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#7
#7
Much confusion denoted here -

Clicker said:
I decided to post on your string because your title fit my feelings so well.
The reason I am licking my wounds and neeing help is this.
I built my gambling account up to $1200 from $120. Not much money to some but alot to me.
I went for two sessions and came back broke.
I am not a counter but I follow basic strategy to the letter. (Regardless of other players comments and jeers)
What I think killed me is two things.
The first is the machine.
The second is not knowing how to bet properly.
I switched tables, seats, sat out, filled empty spots, you name it.
My worst run was 43 hands and not catching one hand.
You can tell how I am rambling that it hurt more than my pocket book.
Help - I don't want to be a crap shooter at a BJ table.
Click to expand...
At least you play correct BS... IF we can take your word on that.

You don't say how much your average bet size was so it difficult to imagine how bad your losing streak was...

BUT "43 hand" without winning (and assuming several pushes in there) is an event that is likely in the 12-figures mid-trillions.

Notwithstanding the above, WHY would you not expect to ultimately lose? You are only a BS player and the casino still has the math-advantage, right? Didn't you think that "gravity" would finally catch up with you? zg
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Well Clicker....I assume that the table minimums are $10? I would probably have reduced my loss limit to around $50 or $60 net under those conditions. That would depend though on how that $50 or $60 was lost. If it was in minimum bets I would definitely be looking for something else. Maybe a session or two of Video Poker to cool off a bit? If I lost it in a split/double hand, then I might increase it a bit but I would never increase it to more than 10x my bet.

The thing you really have to be careful of when NOT playing with a counting system, is "chasing your money." You really have no indications to base decisions to raise bets without knowing the remaining composition of the deck you are playing against. And, with CSMs, you can't have any knowledge of the deck composition since it's constantly shuffled. Chances are, you are going to be throwing larger bets at money already lost and have absolutely no legitimate reason to do that! It very seldom works...I know!

You have to learn to accept the fact that some trips to the casino are just not going to pay off and leave before losing your bankroll. There is no magic formula in knowing when to raise the white flag. I use the 5 or 6 bet loss as a rule of thumb when I'm flat betting. I may not leave the casino, but I try to find some other way to spend a little time other than trying to win back my losses at the table...at least that table. I know, it's all phychological mumbo jumbo to leave a table you are losing at because on the next hand it might turn around and be the hottest table in the house. I just haven't experienced that turn of events too often.
 
C

Clicker

Member
#9
#9
First of all thank you for replying.
I am off to Colorado to try my luck at the Blackhawk Casinos.
I do use BS. It is the only logical method for me to get better.
This will be the first chance that I have had to even think about counting.
From what I gathered at this point is you suggest that 5-6 losses is the limit.
(Before this week I thought 8 was on the edge of insanity but when its the entire table going down with you I just knew it had to change)
5-6 losses is my new absolute.
My major losses were trying to double my previous losses. Knowing that this could not go on. (HA)
It seems that there must be an effective way to increase your betting strategy on a normal (whatever that is) CMS game.
Thank both of you for your time. Have a Merry Christmas and a Profitable 2006.
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Colorado

I've never played in Colorado, but if I'm not mistaken, they have some sort of $5 table maximum on their bets don't they? If so, then counting would be pretty ineffective in that you would have no real way to spread your bets.

Also, from what you describe, you were "risking all" pretty much by betting a negative progression. You were doubling your previous bet when you would lose. We've had a LOT of discussion on progressions here, and negative progression in particular. Your experience exemplifies the very reason that negative progressions will eventually kill you.

Cautioning you about using those negative progressions would be a horrible slap in the face for you've experienced it personally.

As far as there being "some way" to know when to increase your bets against a Constant Shuffling Machine....HOW? The 8 deck set or what ever they are using is constantly reshuffled. There is no way to predict when high cards are going to come out. In essence, the entire time the machine is in use the count is pretty much going to be ZERO.

There have been some attempts to "track" cards with CSMs but I know of no successful attempts with the recent equipment.
 
KenSmith

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#11
#11
Mike's comments sum things up nicely.
One correction though: The Colorado casinos are now allowed to accept bets up to $100.

(Oops! Not true... Read on.)
 
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Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
KenSmith said:
Mike's comments sum things up nicely.
One correction though: The Colorado casinos are now allowed to accept bets up to $100.
Click to expand...
That's very interesting Ken. When did they increase the limits? I know there is a horrible amount of opposition to the casinos in Colorado. The public feels they were mislead about how these establishments would be set up. They understood that the historic settings would not be changed but would follow the style of the casinos of the 1860's. Instead, take a look at Blackhawk now. It's been pretty much transformed into a mini Vegas and the locals do not like it....or at least most of them don't.
 
KenSmith

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
#13
#13
I tried to find the answer to your question about when this changed, but it appears that I was mistaken instead. The rules posted at the Colorado Division of Gaming still have the $5 maximum bet clause.

A couple of months back, I had gotten a question via email from Colorado, and I was pretty sure that the email indicated that the limit had been raised from $5 to $100.

I'm trying to find the email now, but it sure looks like the limit is still $5.
 
Mikeaber

Mikeaber

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
I hope you find that you were right to start with! Verna and I have talked about vacationing in Colorado and Blackhawk and Cherry Creek would have been two of our prime destinations!
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#15
#15
Clicker, you should...

Clicker said:
First of all thank you for replying.
I am off to Colorado to try my luck at the Blackhawk Casinos.
I do use BS. It is the only logical method for me to get better.
This will be the first chance that I have had to even think about counting.
From what I gathered at this point is you suggest that 5-6 losses is the limit.
(Before this week I thought 8 was on the edge of insanity but when its the entire table going down with you I just knew it had to change)
5-6 losses is my new absolute.
My major losses were trying to double my previous losses. Knowing that this could not go on. (HA)
It seems that there must be an effective way to increase your betting strategy on a normal (whatever that is) CMS game.
Thank both of you for your time. Have a Merry Christmas and a Profitable 2006.
Click to expand...
...do like ScouseVinne and QUIT!!! zg
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#16
#16
Mikeaber said:
I've never played in Colorado, but if I'm not mistaken, they have some sort of $5 table maximum on their bets don't they? If so, then counting would be pretty ineffective in that you would have no real way to spread your bets.
Click to expand...
Some of the table were/used to be "multi-action BJ" allowing up to 3 seperate $5 bets per hand - two hands could equal $30 bet per round. zg
 
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