Looking for a Blackjack mentor [serious post]

S

salsa4ever

Member
OK, let me introduce myself

I am a business consultant with an accounting and finance background. I currently reside in the UK, on a 2 year working holiday visa. My home country is Australia, which is a lovely place but I just can't see myself going back there within the next few years - there's just not much [except beaches and sun and nice clean air and good steak] and I want to see more of the world before I "settle down".

I am also a semi professional online poker player. I have won about $50k on holdem and $50k on omaha in the last five years starting from a $50 deposit [back then there were still some decent online casino bonuses to get me started], playing on average 5-10 hours a week with many months where I didn't play at all due to something called work and life.

Anyway, my next destination when my visa runs out in the UK I would like to be USA. As it's too difficult to get a proper working visa, and I always dreamed of proving I could make a living as a gambler I want to spend 3-6 months being an AP, maybe with some travelling thrown in, and re-evaluate.

My live record is about +$500 in poker and +$1000 in BJ, which I made over 4 days in Vegas and 2 days in Reno [only got about 10 hours casino play in as I was too busy sightseeing and screwing]. There's also another $1000 I made when I was on vacation in Lima.

I do a flawless hi-lo with the 22 indicies. I have zero experience in cover or other AP techniques, or local knowledge of casinos. I can beat the strategy trainer on any number of decks consistently.

I have been lurking the forums and occasionally posting, so this post doubles as a welcome post.

I don't know if I can receive PMs before 10 posts, can someone clarify?

Anyway, I would be interested in getting the help of a mentor. Not really in terms of learning to count. I do believe in keeping the count simple, but am not averse to learning a level 2 count if I saw fit. But I need help on which casinos to play, how to cover, how to wong-in/out without looking suspicious, handling the inevitable back offs, rat-holing, etc... I am also very interested in "other" AP techniques like sequencing, HC and shuffle tracking. I haven't been blessed with a sharp eye to match my brain, but would definitely put in the time to practice.

I would pay [I don't have any particular figure in mind, but it would depend on the mentor's reputation etc.] to compensate for time spent on me. I would be happy to spend some time on the phone/facebook/in person/on poker sites to assure anyone I am not a phony or working for a casino.

I will travel anywhere in the US where there are games. If people want to do it more informally like meeting up with me somewhere and showing me around and showing me the ropes I would also be grateful of course.

Anyway, let me know whether this is in the realms of possibility, and HI EVERYBODY :)
 
M

MattL

New Member
Hey, I recognize your name from the FTR poker forums. I'm KoRnholio on there.

If you're going to be gambling for profit in the States, why not stick with poker? You already have the skill set required, and it's much more profitable than AP BJ. BJ truly is a grind, with a much higher risk of ruin due to the stakes you'd need to play to make it worthwhile.
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
salsa, meh, ST isn't exactly a sure fire way to make money either. The advantage you get out of it is similar to straight up CC'ing. Just like you can whiff hand after hand with a +18 TC, you can whiff hand after hand ST'ing despite the high cards coming out where you predict (dealer pulling bullsh*t 20's and 21's constantly, or you still getting 13 and 14's). Plus its a lot harder.

I will tell you an anecdote that will tell you all you need to know about cover, so prepare the pen and checkbook:

Two guys are out hiking. All of a sudden, a bear starts chasing them.

The first guy starts putting on his sneaker.

The second guy says, "Are you crazy? You can't outrun a bear."

The first guy says, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you!"
 
T

The Chaperone

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:
IF one can be proficient at poker, that is INCOMPARABLY better than Blackjack.
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You can't really make a blanket statement like that. For example, I'm fairly confident I could scrape out a living playing poker if it was the only game available to me, but I'd make far, far less than I would in my typical gambling pursuits even if I were limited to just counting cards. You may argue that the lack of heat is nice, but then there's also lack of comps, massive amounts of boredom (for me at least), and at least in my case, less winnings than I get from other forms of gambling.
 
moo321

moo321

Well-Known Member
I'd help you out.

I'm going to disagree with the other posters: Poker is a great low to mid-level game, but once you get a huge bankroll, the high end games are crap. Unless you can get into some juicy home game, it's not worth grinding a quarter of a big bet an hour out of the 200-400 game.

Blackjack is a great game for mid to higher level bankrolls. Say 20-100k playing solo, or up to 500k as a team. Once you have a few million, though, I'd recommend real estate or stocks (which I'm sure you're already in).
 
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N

NightStalker

Well-Known Member
Poker winnings are less than blackjack?

The Chaperone said:
You can't really make a blanket statement like that. For example, I'm fairly confident I could scrape out a living playing poker if it was the only game available to me, but I'd make far, far less than I would in my typical gambling pursuits even if I were limited to just counting cards. You may argue that the lack of heat is nice, but then there's also lack of comps, massive amounts of boredom (for me at least), and at least in my case, less winnings than I get from other forms of gambling.
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That's strange.
Blackjack has upper bound on winnings restricted by heat level, table maximum and number of good games. While poker has no upper bound in winnings, you can keep increasing your stakes and winnings..
 
M

MangoJ

Well-Known Member
NightStalker said:
While poker has no upper bound in winnings, you can keep increasing your stakes and winnings..
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Then tell me, who will win on a table full of professional poker players ?
The higher the stakes, the higher your skill you need to beat the rake (and the other players).
 
Craps Master

Craps Master

Well-Known Member
The Chaperone said:
You can't really make a blanket statement like that. For example, I'm fairly confident I could scrape out a living playing poker if it was the only game available to me, but I'd make far, far less than I would in my typical gambling pursuits even if I were limited to just counting cards. You may argue that the lack of heat is nice, but then there's also lack of comps, massive amounts of boredom (for me at least), and at least in my case, less winnings than I get from other forms of gambling.
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This is probably only true for you short term, because of the learning curve involved, and the difficulty to motivate yourself to master poker in the face of large immediate opportunity costs. (Unless you think you are slated to be the next Billy Walters, in which case obviously stick with your current plan.) I think FLASH's statement is generally correct, but obviously there are exceptions.

I'm going to disagree with the other posters: Poker is a great low to mid-level game, but once you get a huge bankroll, the high end games are crap. Unless you can get into some juicy home game, it's not worth grinding a quarter of a big bet an hour out of the 200-400 game.
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The inevitable summit of a poker career: grinding out a quarter of a big bet per hour in a 200/400 game.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Poker is less boring (to my tastes) than the other forms of AP but the same human element that makes it less boring also makes it less predictable as a source of EV, and unpredictability = lower SCORE.

If I was ever going to take up poker, I would disguise myself as a fish, work with a partner, and specialize in screwing poker AP's.
 
N

NightStalker

Well-Known Member
You are talking in different context..

MangoJ said:
Then tell me, who will win on a table full of professional poker players ?
The higher the stakes, the higher your skill you need to beat the rake (and the other players).
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Obviously you need to be better than the other players at that stake. This is a restriction by your skill-set, which is specific to you. You can improve your game and become better.
Are you saying average blackjack counter can win at expected edge, are you serious?

I assume Rake % decreases as you go higher in stakes.
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
I would imagine the higher stakes you play, the better the players. And no matter how great your skill set, at 200-400 levels, everyone else is great most of the time at that level.

You cannot improve your skills to the point of becoming some god-like poker player, heads and shoulders better than other great poker players.
 
Craps Master

Craps Master

Well-Known Member
Gamblor said:
I would imagine the higher stakes you play, the better the players. And no matter how great your skill set, at 200-400 levels, everyone else is great most of the time at that level.

You cannot improve your skills to the point of becoming some god-like poker player, heads and shoulders better than other great poker players.
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Are you suggesting, then, that there's no money in high stakes poker, as everyone there is solid?
 
Lonesome Gambler

Lonesome Gambler

Well-Known Member
Ha, I'm sure some will get the reference. But although not "everyone's solid" in high stakes poker, the edge is tremendously smaller than it is for a skilled player at low-med stakes. I can think of lots of ways to leverage a large bankroll with non-poker AP, but there's only one way to do it with poker, and it's a pretty damned hard way at that!
 
B

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
CM:
Do you think a high stakes sports bettor or table games player (using advanced techniques) could make more money as a poker pro if they dedicated the required time into training?
 
Craps Master

Craps Master

Well-Known Member
Brock Windsor said:
CM:
Do you think a high stakes sports bettor or table games player (using advanced techniques) could make more money as a poker pro if they dedicated the required time into training?
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That depends on a lot of factors. But, FLASH's statement was regarding a guy who "can be proficient at poker." Someone in the OP's position will likely find poker more lucrative. To answer your question, some people who can find ways to win at sports or table games don't have what it takes to become proficient at poker. For those people, poker will never be more than a waste of time, at best, or a significant financial leak, at worst.
 
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