Mindplay

[Mr. V]

Here is a link to a thread from Gamingfloor.com concerning Mindplay, i.e.mp21.

http://www.gamingfloor.biz/forum/showthread.php?s=eb27b29609e14a9a58ee0c99826cb014&threadid=1074

Yet another way tool for the house to defeat competent card counters.

 

[LV Bear]

MIndplay may not be around for long *LINK*

The Mayor and other players/player advocates have been active in trying to get the Nevada Gaming Control Board to do their job and outlaw the device. It is not easy to get them to do anything that the casinos do not want, or rule against anything that the cainsos DO want.

Mindplay has been around for almost four years now, and is only in a handful of stores -- Eldorado Reno, which was the development partner in it, Crystal Bay, Flamingo in Las Vegas (on a trial basis), and Mohegan Sun has ordered it. So far, I would have to say it has been a failure.

 

[LV Bear]

Better link

Go to home page, then scroll down to: Regarding Mindplay21, Letter To GCC, GCB, Their Response

 

[gehrig]

once before...

the randomness of the 21 game was attacked by technology.

when the mikohn "track-jack" was debuted at a gaming show, i carefully observed the demonstration and sales presentation to industry attendees. the dealer/mikohn rep exactly stated that one of the benefits of the system, beyond evaluating a player's worth, was to alert the pit when the deck "was out of line". read, "plus" count. the particular monitor demonstrated could display the "count" on several games simultaneously. when the count went up on a particular table, the screen background could change color on that split screen window, thus alerting the pit game supervisor ('stiff) that the game was vulnerable. since there are no rules regarding early shuffle-ups on even shoe games, it's obvious that beyond "protecting the game", a 'stiff directed, early shuffle-up [breaking a shoe], absolutely is designed to stifle the randomness of the game. and that, is illegal. altering the randomness of the game is a ticket to the crowbar motel, when performed by a guest/player. apparently what's sauce for the goose is *not* sauce for the gander.

i forwarded this info along with the supporting sales literature to arnold snyder. sometime later, i noticed that snyder was a participant on a gaming discussion panel which included at least one mikohn staff member. snyder pointedly asked if the system could/would/might be used to detect card counters [to alter the randomness of the game]. as i recall, at least twice the mikohn rep denied that the system could/would be so used. that was exactly a lie since that was contraty to their sales employees' presentation.

 

[Victoria]

Not only cheats but

if you are a non counter but a comp hussler I think you will not like it either.
The corporations selling devices like Mindplay understand their customers very well. Casinos are paranoid about counters and they also feel that some customers are getting seriously over comped. Here we have Mindplay that can eliminate both of these problems and save you money. That is the pitch and there is nothing in it for any player who has the slightest idea of how most casinos work. Pay less comps and throw the counters out, a win win situation.

The gaming board can get all the promises they want that the card counting ability of Mindplay will not be used by the house to shuffle up early when a game is in the players favor. Human and corporate nature, in my opinion, is exactly the same here. Someone, somewhere will use that ability if it is their.

That might be the only part of this monster that we can complain about. Detecting an advantage player by use of a computer is legal and comps are not mandatory.

 

[Sonny]

I LOVE IT!!!!!

> the particular monitor demonstrated could display the "count" on several
> games simultaneously. when the count went up on a particular table, the
> screen background could change color on that split screen window, thus
> alerting the pit game supervisor ('stiff) that the game was vulnerable.

That sounds great! Instead of walking around the pit and counting down every table like a sucker, I could just watch the computer in the pit. Maybe they could attach it to a PA system like Walmart.

Just think of the announcements!

"Hot shoe, Pit 2!"
"Table 8, plus four!"
"Table 12, plus one, yellow alert!"
"Table 16, minus 2. Hey, wait...where are you all going?! You can't ALL have to go to the bathroom!"

-Sonny-

 

[Automatic Monkey]

So what if we bring a computer too

Comps are part of the deal in casinos, and if casinos advertise comps, they are legally obliged to deliver them. And if they are using a computer to rate them, we have a legal right to be sure that the computer is functioning properly.

So we should all bring our own computers to the table, and use them to check the accuracy of the comp-rating function of Mindplay. And I promise not to use mine to count cards or track shuffles. It would be a tough case for the casinos to win, if a player uses a computer to do the exact same thing Mindplay is doing, ostensibly for the same reason.

 

[gehrig]

more stuff..

1] i erred in recalling the names of the mikohn systems. the first one was to protect the baccarat game and was called "safe-bac". the later, 21 system was "safe-jac".

2] beyond detecting cheating, it appears (to me from seminars) that the industry stress is on player evaluation. that automatically involves player tracking. and, an accurate system would negate overcomping.

certain properties monitor pit issued comps from surveillance. that would check the comp #101 ploy of placing a larger wager only when the few times/hour that the 'stiff slithers up to the table. another value to the joint is that the nickel bettors fall through the cracks in most player evaluation systems. some of these red players camp for hours at a table yet never get on the comp radar.

one tracking system i saw previewed had slots at the table edge, much like slot card readers. when a player didn't insert a card, it was displayed on a console and the 'stiff would worry the player. the objective of table game player evaluation/tracking is to achieve the automated, "accurate" data as on slots.

thus the days of the already limited, pit comp slip, might be vanishing. those were the days when one could flash a b.r., buy-in with a few hundred at a mid-strip joint, and with a fake name, get a ducat for the coffee shop.

 

[Peewee Potter]

It's a lose - lose situation.

If you think mindplay is a win-win strategy for casinos and they dont have to give out comps, then me just wondering how long a casino can stay in business giving out no comps and using mindgames...oops,I mean mindplay. There's only 2 casinos that have accepted MP and one of them owns it,so you go figure it out. Thousand of other casinos have had over 4 years to try MP and none of them use it,so it's nothing to worry about and must not be as good you think.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I will do a Mindplay report...

... when it comes to Mohegan Sun. This is a place where I have played an awful lot and can spread with no heat. (Mohegan is the smallest casino in CT but still larger than any in Nevada or NJ.) $25-2x$200 draws no attention, and a dealer once told me they are only looking for teams. So this will be a good test of the capabilities of the system; same house before and after Mindplay. My guess is they are going to be using it just for comps so they can lay off a PC from each pit who apparently does nothing but rate players. But we'll see.

 

[oldnewbie]

Mindplay weakness

The casino owners have to remember, any system that runs on a computer network can and will be hacked. Imagine what havoc a hacker could wreak with a system like this! Most of the malicious little twerps aren't even in it for the money; they just like to see the grownups run around and squeal like stuck pigs for awhile. If mindplay becomes the rule rather than the exception, it might make for tighter controls for awhile, but it will be fun to watch.