Hallo Again Mr. Mayor & everyone,
Some of my thoughts from this week at work to try to answer some questions:
The Mayor wrote...
You are right that we want to take from you and not give back to you. There is no way we would tell you anything that would help you in your job, on the other hand, you could tell us quite a lot.
In that light here are some of my favorite things the AP/CC gives to the Casino & Helps me in my Job...
1.) Keeping the tables open. People are more likely to join in than start playing alone.
2.) Helping my Dealers properly pace the game.
3.) People love to see winners. Just like in the slots, if they feel like a winner is produced at my tables, (even if it is not them.) they believe it is better to play my games than the competition.
4.) By exploiting procedural problems AP/CC 's help me to find procedural problems at my games. I would much rather have a single hit than an ongoing long-term problem.
5.) And my personal favorite... Annoying my competition! To me it is amazing how much some Properties, or even some of my fellow Floor Personnel will FREAK OUT over what is a relatively small loss.
This Forum is helpful to me. If nothing else it helps me to better understand not just how, but rather why people work to become AP's.
The Mayor also wrote:
My question is, to what extent are you aware that this is going on, but don't know who to look for or how it is coming down? And, what more advanced methods have you come across and dealt with? How do you look for those methods? Does your management just not believe these things happen, or does your management have too much ego to admit you are getting creamed sometimes?
1.) "To what extent am I aware that AP is going on?" I work in a primarily "local's" Casino. I know nearly every player of substance. Some I know because of the potential $ figure of play, some because of their frequency of play. Some because I just like people, and have a natural memory for names, faces, etc. I am aware and accepting of a certain amount of AP in my pit. The above advantages that your community gives the Casino are just some of my favorite reasons why I accept AP. They are certainly not all of the reasons. I am sure that there are many others this Forum could also mention.
2.) "Not knowing who to look for?" is a difficult question for me. Unless I am "too busy" you would have a difficult time playing at my pit without some acknowledgement from me personally. It is amazing how much my job has changed over the years from strictly asset protection to much more customer service driven asset production. At any rate in my venue I try to know everyone.
3.) "How it is coming down?" is a more interesting question. I have some long-term regular players that I swear just do not lose! I am willing to admit that I do not know how they win. It is easy for me to have surveillance rate their skill level, or see if it is an exploitation of a weak procedure. (I enjoyed your story about exploiting a weakness in a Big 6 Wheel procedure.) So far as I can tell they just win. :O) Fortunately for the house they are also too compulsive to actually be winners long term.
4.) I have to pause a moment on your most interesting question, "What advanced methods have I seen and how do I look for them?" Outside of illegal activity, I think one of my favorite methods just involves exploiting a procedure problem. Watching for sloppy shuffle procedures is in my experience the AP/CC's greatest advantage. It is unbelievable how often I find a dealer that clumps (for lack of a better word) their shuffle. One of the advantages I have over my competitors is that I have excellent long-term Dealers. The majority of the Dealers I know (As well as their Supervisors) equate speed with Dealing skill level. This can obviously create a huge player advantage when their shuffle is not true.
5.) "How do I look for them?" Again I have an amazing team of people to help me. I use my Dealer's more than most Floor Personnel that I know. They may be... Scratch that... They are better at rating a player's skill level than I am. I do have to make sure that the rating is not skewed improperly by the level of tokes. I am amazed at how many in your Forum do not see any advantage to tipping! That may come from my being just an old Dealer myself! ;O)
6.) I have to say concerning Management's Ego, they really do defer to me the decisions on dealing with winning and losing. I am sure they know the Casino does get "creamed" by AP's to some extent. I think this Forum would be amazed at how rare there is any mention of AP/CC's to the Floor personnel from Management. They are much more concerned about the level of Customer Service provided by our Front-Line Staff.
Sincerely after a week of weak thought...
OnePitCritter
Some of my thoughts from this week at work to try to answer some questions:
The Mayor wrote...
You are right that we want to take from you and not give back to you. There is no way we would tell you anything that would help you in your job, on the other hand, you could tell us quite a lot.
In that light here are some of my favorite things the AP/CC gives to the Casino & Helps me in my Job...
1.) Keeping the tables open. People are more likely to join in than start playing alone.
2.) Helping my Dealers properly pace the game.
3.) People love to see winners. Just like in the slots, if they feel like a winner is produced at my tables, (even if it is not them.) they believe it is better to play my games than the competition.
4.) By exploiting procedural problems AP/CC 's help me to find procedural problems at my games. I would much rather have a single hit than an ongoing long-term problem.
5.) And my personal favorite... Annoying my competition! To me it is amazing how much some Properties, or even some of my fellow Floor Personnel will FREAK OUT over what is a relatively small loss.
This Forum is helpful to me. If nothing else it helps me to better understand not just how, but rather why people work to become AP's.
The Mayor also wrote:
My question is, to what extent are you aware that this is going on, but don't know who to look for or how it is coming down? And, what more advanced methods have you come across and dealt with? How do you look for those methods? Does your management just not believe these things happen, or does your management have too much ego to admit you are getting creamed sometimes?
1.) "To what extent am I aware that AP is going on?" I work in a primarily "local's" Casino. I know nearly every player of substance. Some I know because of the potential $ figure of play, some because of their frequency of play. Some because I just like people, and have a natural memory for names, faces, etc. I am aware and accepting of a certain amount of AP in my pit. The above advantages that your community gives the Casino are just some of my favorite reasons why I accept AP. They are certainly not all of the reasons. I am sure that there are many others this Forum could also mention.
2.) "Not knowing who to look for?" is a difficult question for me. Unless I am "too busy" you would have a difficult time playing at my pit without some acknowledgement from me personally. It is amazing how much my job has changed over the years from strictly asset protection to much more customer service driven asset production. At any rate in my venue I try to know everyone.
3.) "How it is coming down?" is a more interesting question. I have some long-term regular players that I swear just do not lose! I am willing to admit that I do not know how they win. It is easy for me to have surveillance rate their skill level, or see if it is an exploitation of a weak procedure. (I enjoyed your story about exploiting a weakness in a Big 6 Wheel procedure.) So far as I can tell they just win. :O) Fortunately for the house they are also too compulsive to actually be winners long term.
4.) I have to pause a moment on your most interesting question, "What advanced methods have I seen and how do I look for them?" Outside of illegal activity, I think one of my favorite methods just involves exploiting a procedure problem. Watching for sloppy shuffle procedures is in my experience the AP/CC's greatest advantage. It is unbelievable how often I find a dealer that clumps (for lack of a better word) their shuffle. One of the advantages I have over my competitors is that I have excellent long-term Dealers. The majority of the Dealers I know (As well as their Supervisors) equate speed with Dealing skill level. This can obviously create a huge player advantage when their shuffle is not true.
5.) "How do I look for them?" Again I have an amazing team of people to help me. I use my Dealer's more than most Floor Personnel that I know. They may be... Scratch that... They are better at rating a player's skill level than I am. I do have to make sure that the rating is not skewed improperly by the level of tokes. I am amazed at how many in your Forum do not see any advantage to tipping! That may come from my being just an old Dealer myself! ;O)
6.) I have to say concerning Management's Ego, they really do defer to me the decisions on dealing with winning and losing. I am sure they know the Casino does get "creamed" by AP's to some extent. I think this Forum would be amazed at how rare there is any mention of AP/CC's to the Floor personnel from Management. They are much more concerned about the level of Customer Service provided by our Front-Line Staff.
Sincerely after a week of weak thought...
OnePitCritter