Need Some Help...

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Time2Play

New Member
#1
#1
So I'm new to this forum and I have a couple questions if anyone has some suggestions that might help that would be great. I work shift work, 4 on 4 off so I'm looking for a hobby to fill some down time that I now have. I have a BR of $1500.00 and am able to add between $300-$500 to it each month from work without stretching myself. I am wondering what might be the best place to start (limits). Being new to the game I'm guessing I should start low. What do you recommend for playing... heads up against the dealer, table with a couple players... 1 or 2 spots? Also I'm looking for any suggestions on what I might best be suited to learn system wise, Hi-Lo etc... Finally what are some good resources that might help (reading wise or online).
Thanks in advance for any help.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
Look to your left. See the blue screen with Site Features. Seven down, you'll see Blackjack School. It's the best place to start.
 
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21Menace

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
The lessons to the left helped me tremendously. I also recommend them.

With only $1500 your risk of losing it all will be very high if you follow the bet spread recommended($5-$60). By backcounting until you have an advantage you can lower your max bet which will lower your ROR. I have a 1500 bankroll as well so my max bet is only $20 and I only play at TC of 1 or higher.

On the other hand, since you are able to add a few hundred each month to your bankroll you may be alright playing all and spreading more like the lessons recommend.

Also, look into getting cvbj and cvcx from qfit. Cvbj will help you master whichever counting method you want to learn. Cvcx will help you figure out you optimal bet spread, ror, advantage, win rate etc..
 
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Leaveawinner

Banned
#5
#5
shadroch said:
Look to your left. See the blue screen with Site Features. Seven down, you'll see Blackjack School. It's the best place to start.
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I'm not sure I agree with everything on this site. Fortunately, I was able to learn before the internet. Don't trust the counting software. 1. Why just sit there staring at a screen, feeling nothing. 2. A deck of cards and chips are 99 cents at any 99 cent store. 3. I don't even like the basic strategy table.

Sorry, no offense...
 
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21Menace

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Leaveawinner said:
I'm not sure I agree with everything on this site. Fortunately, I was able to learn before the internet. Don't trust the counting software. 1. Why just sit there staring at a screen, feeling nothing. 2. A deck of cards and chips are 99 cents at any 99 cent store. 3. I don't even like the basic strategy table.

Sorry, no offense...
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There's so many places you can make mistakes when you first learn to count. Without software, or someone with experience watching you, how would you ever know if you made a mistake. Beginners make bs mistakes, indices mistakes, deck estimation mistakes, betting mistakes etc. Without software to check for these errors, a beginner may think they're ready for a real casino when they're actually not even close.
 
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IcedTea23

Member
#7
#7
I do recall before Leaveawinner, you also said you don't follow BS fully. Also, you side-counted your aces on your count without knowledge of what to do with this info, and just deducted it from your running count for your betting action. And, you didn't know if you played a 2 deck or a 6 deck game. This info makes me believe your knowledge of counting leaves something to be desired. When someone new to counting is offered good advice, try to refrain from giving them mis-guided information.

On a side note, the school to the left is really helpful. The type of count you are planning on learning will depend on your game you have access to, be it pitch or shoe.

The BS engine on this sight is extremely helpful, and accurate. Once you have a feel for the game, try playing proper BS against the game on this sight. See how long you can go without making a single error. Than repeat over and over, until you can't make an error. Than slowly incorporate counting into your playing, to just vary your bet, while learning the indices. This should keep you busy for a while.

Cheers, IT
 
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ace157

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
money - that 3-500/month is prolly more than you will make at the tables w/ ur given BR. however, i think i have read several places that you need 1,000 units to account for a reasonable risk of ruin (chance of losing everything). so you can decide for urself

where to start - there is a sticky either in "bj general" or "card counting" that has "free web resources."

books - do a lil leg work and it will be easy to find out what everyone is reading or what they reccomend or are selling.

*word to the wise on books: if you don't plan on making it your Bible and just want to take notes out of it, interlibrary loans are incredible :grin:
 
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suthn_gent

New Member
#11
#11
BR suggestions

Time2Play said:
I have a BR of $1500.00 and am able to add between $300-$500 to it each month from work without stretching myself. I am wondering what might be the best place to start (limits).
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A good rule of thumb for bankroll for card counting is you need around 150 max bets. Some APs, especially recreational players, will play to a BR of around 100 max bets, but of course their risk of ruin is a bit higher. Thus to a $1500 BR you can only bet around $10-15 max using this rule of thumb, which really doesn't allow for an adequate spread. The actual amount of BR you need depends on the player's personal risk tolerance (some players demand less than 1% ROR, some are willing to accept 5%+ ROR) and also how good of game you are playing.

The good news is that you can make substantial (relative to the current size of your BR) regular contributions to you BR. This means you can treat your current BR somewhat like a trip BR instead of your total BR, and your effective total BR is higher than $1500. How much higher largely depends on how many hrs you will be playing between the new contributions. I'm assuming your play will be limited due to having a regular job.

Obviously my point is that your top priority at this point IMO should be to build BR and avoid risk as much as possible. Make use of promotions casinos may be running. Look for fun book coupons. Play a little at several casinos instead of a lot at one to generate more mail offers. Play a wong game as much as possible. You not only want to avoid the -EV small waiting bets of a play all game, but more importantly with a small BR you would be avoiding the variance those bets bring. I'd also consider using practically no cover starting out. At such small stakes, you'll likely be under the radar and cover would simply be an unnecessary reduction in EV and increase in variance. You should also be very selective in the games you play. Avoid playing games with poor rules and/or conditions, like poor pen or crowded tables. Also note that expenses like travel and non-comped food/room expenses are real killers to the bottom line for small stakes play. Try to keep these to the bare minimum and try to get as much comped as possible.

Some APs starting out with a small BR will take a "Hail Mary" approach. Doing this, you would bet big for a short time and take a shot with a much higher than normal risk of ruin. They then either make it over the BR acquisition hump quickly and pull back to very low risk play structure or they quickly go bust. I believe the thinking by most doing this is they'd rather go bust quickly and be able to devote their full attention to other endeavors or towards building another BR from other sources than to take a very long time grinding out a BR increase at minimal but safe stakes. It might even be impossible for some to grind out a BR increase at small stakes due to not being able to overcome out of pocket expenses like travel and non-comped food/rooms. A lot is really a matter of personal preference, but you should educate yourself on the risks to rewards of such a structure and make an informed decision on how you want to structure your plan of attack. Personally I'd probably be more inclined to take a slower, safer approach in your situation as you can make regular outside BR contributions and it appears you won't likely be putting in a lot of play hours due to having a regular job. But you may have different personal preferences and/or I may have a lack of understanding of your situation to some degree.

Good luck on your new endeavor.
 
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