Nevada - take note from a state with profitable casinos
- Thread starter 21forme
- Start date
21forme said:
Casinos in Pa have a huge advantage over Nevada casinos- they have no retirees to pay, and all their workers are new. Give it thirty years, when they are paying out pensions and many of their employees are earning big bucks after twenty or more step raises. By then, they will also have huge marketing departments sending out 500,000 postcards to bring in 15,000 customers. I suspect Harrahs and MGM are paying retirement benefits to almost as many people as they have employeed right now.
Gamblor
Well-Known Member
Hmm, state with some of the best BJ rules has some of the best revenues.
Places with the worst/worsening rules are having a terrible time (AC, LV). Any correlation? Maybe not, but I think so.
Hmm, treat customers well, instead of constantly trying to nickel and dime them, and they'll come back. What a mind-blowing concept.
In the article, strange comment about match plays, most PA casinos don't have it, but I know Mohegan Sun does.
Places with the worst/worsening rules are having a terrible time (AC, LV). Any correlation? Maybe not, but I think so.
Hmm, treat customers well, instead of constantly trying to nickel and dime them, and they'll come back. What a mind-blowing concept.
In the article, strange comment about match plays, most PA casinos don't have it, but I know Mohegan Sun does.
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LV Bear
Administrator
Casinos have retirement programs?
Give it thirty years, when they are paying out pensions and many of their employees are earning big bucks after twenty or more step raises.
I was not aware that casino had private retirement programs, other then the occasional "golden parachute" for some executive they want to get rid of. I was also not aware that many casino employees, other than top management, make "big bucks." Please elaborate.
Give it thirty years, when they are paying out pensions and many of their employees are earning big bucks after twenty or more step raises.
I was not aware that casino had private retirement programs, other then the occasional "golden parachute" for some executive they want to get rid of. I was also not aware that many casino employees, other than top management, make "big bucks." Please elaborate.
Pa pitch GAMES SOUNDS GOOD to me. The Pa Gaming Commission is smart. All other games are the same everywhere. They can become the top gaming destination in the country by offering the best games of blackjack. Otherwise the are just another casino in the middle of no where.
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noharmnofoul
Active Member
Wow, sure would be nice if it was like that everywhere!
Vladimir Stupnisky
Member
I sincerely hope the PA Gaming Board does not buckle under pressure from the gaming companies. You would think that one bean counter in a million would figure out that their casinos make more money when offering decent games, instead of just using "theoretical" analysis to offer lousy games which HURT them.
I guess they are not so smart.
If pitch games are approved, why not go whole hog and give us single deck? Even the double deck game at Wheeling is dealt face up; it would be nice to be able to go somewhere other than Nevada or Mississippi to play single/double deck and be able to hold the cards.
I know when I play at the ElCo, it is novel for me to hold the cards! It is sort of nice for us midwesterners to be able to play the game the way it used to be played... the way it was MEANT to be played.
I guess they are not so smart.
If pitch games are approved, why not go whole hog and give us single deck? Even the double deck game at Wheeling is dealt face up; it would be nice to be able to go somewhere other than Nevada or Mississippi to play single/double deck and be able to hold the cards.
I know when I play at the ElCo, it is novel for me to hold the cards! It is sort of nice for us midwesterners to be able to play the game the way it used to be played... the way it was MEANT to be played.
Vladimir Stupnisky said:I sincerely hope the PA Gaming Board does not buckle under pressure from the gaming companies. You would think that one bean counter in a million would figure out that their casinos make more money when offering decent games, instead of just using "theoretical" analysis to offer lousy games which HURT them.
I guess they are not so smart.
If pitch games are approved, why not go whole hog and give us single deck? Even the double deck game at Wheeling is dealt face up; it would be nice to be able to go somewhere other than Nevada or Mississippi to play single/double deck and be able to hold the cards.
I know when I play at the ElCo, it is novel for me to hold the cards! It is sort of nice for us midwesterners to be able to play the game the way it used to be played... the way it was MEANT to be played.
Why would you prefer handheld games to pitch? A pitch DD game that lets you see all the cards on the table is much better than one where you don't.
Blue Efficacy
Well-Known Member
In my experience face up games are much faster. But the casinos I normally play at that offer pitch have absolutely moronic clientele also.21forme said:
Vladimir Stupnisky
Member
Shadroch... Since I am basic strategy player, it is not as big a deal for me, personally, whether the cards at a pitch game are dealt face up or not. I simply enjoy playing the game at the ElCo because that is old school blackjack dealing etiquette, which is becoming rare to find.
I have not been to Tunica, but are the single deckers there dealt the same as the ElCo, or face up?
On topic, I thought it was strange how I have never received matchplays from either Rivers or Presque Isle. Now I know...
I have not been to Tunica, but are the single deckers there dealt the same as the ElCo, or face up?
On topic, I thought it was strange how I have never received matchplays from either Rivers or Presque Isle. Now I know...
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Pension programs are supposed to be savings plans, unless they have been raided. If PA casino workers have pensions in theory the money is supposed to be going into an account right now to be paid out later, in which case the pension expense for PA would be the same as for LV.shadroch said:
Seniority is an issue, but PA is a much more populous state with a much larger economy and pool of available workers, so it should balance out.
I get mailers from the PA casinos every other day. Some really good promotions too; how can they afford to give me all that and still remain profitable?
Here's the real reason why: PA casinos are new and designed for the modern gambler in the current economy. Las Vegas is still running on the 70's business model. PA also got their loans at 21st century interest rates, which is what's killing AC- the cost of money at the time when those casinos were built.
The good rules don't hurt either; players don't feel disrespected and nickle-and-dimed in a different way every day, and it was also a smart decision to make the rules universal across the state. That way an unskilled player who gets familiar and gets his "flow" going in one casino doesn't feel like anything has changed when he goes to another one. The casinos can then compete among themselves with variety of games, service, comps and amenities.
I believe the PA casinos were lobbing for the option for H17 and getting rid of LS. Since they are now required to offer at minimum S17 and LS they had to find another way of increasing the houses edge and they are doing that now by reducing the pen.
They are all new casinos and bringing a new product into any market is going to bring allot of new customers in the door and with that revenues initially. I don't think they will be saying the same thing in ten years as the market matures.
Meadows last week has reduced the pen down to 67% and every dealer was cutting the same two decks off six. The Rivers on the other hand was somewhat better at 75 to 82%. Interesting to note that the rookie dealers were cutting at 75% while the older dealers that had been there awhile were in the higher pen numbers.
We'll see what happens when Ohio starts to open next year and the completion begins to heat up. My opinion is the rules are going to need to loosen up a bit in order to keep those toasty revenues and tax dollars rolling in.
Marlin
They are all new casinos and bringing a new product into any market is going to bring allot of new customers in the door and with that revenues initially. I don't think they will be saying the same thing in ten years as the market matures.
Meadows last week has reduced the pen down to 67% and every dealer was cutting the same two decks off six. The Rivers on the other hand was somewhat better at 75 to 82%. Interesting to note that the rookie dealers were cutting at 75% while the older dealers that had been there awhile were in the higher pen numbers.
We'll see what happens when Ohio starts to open next year and the completion begins to heat up. My opinion is the rules are going to need to loosen up a bit in order to keep those toasty revenues and tax dollars rolling in.
Marlin
Automatic Monkey
Banned
No, decreasing pen decreases revenue for a casino. They will figure this out. So would eliminating LS. I think the problem they had with that is they don't know the difference between early and late surrender, and I believe the Mt. Airy website still insists they have early surrender.Marlin said:
billionaireben
Member
I am not impressed with PA games
The games are okay, but no single deck games and they may in the future have double deck games. 6:5 single deck isnt nearly as good as single deck with D10,11, but they have neither.
6 and 8 deck games rarely have the big advantages single and double deck do.
In a 6:5 single deck game after 5 hands in a ro6 game heads up against the dealer the count reached +12, half way through the deck thats a TC of +24! deducting 2-3 for the house edge thats at least an 10-11% edge. Albeit for only one hand. Yes I did bet big, if I wasnt chatting with the pit boss (nice fellow) I would have bet everything on the table (but I did bet $120 without anyone batting an eye, thats 12x my usual bet and about 8% of my trip bankroll).
The games are okay, but no single deck games and they may in the future have double deck games. 6:5 single deck isnt nearly as good as single deck with D10,11, but they have neither.
6 and 8 deck games rarely have the big advantages single and double deck do.
In a 6:5 single deck game after 5 hands in a ro6 game heads up against the dealer the count reached +12, half way through the deck thats a TC of +24! deducting 2-3 for the house edge thats at least an 10-11% edge. Albeit for only one hand. Yes I did bet big, if I wasnt chatting with the pit boss (nice fellow) I would have bet everything on the table (but I did bet $120 without anyone batting an eye, thats 12x my usual bet and about 8% of my trip bankroll).