new games at binions--but are they worth playing in u guys opinion?

[sevencard2003]

theres a big sign out there by the main fremont street entrance across from the nugget which says all hands mon-tue 24 hour period that contain 6 cards are paid off as WINNERS. does this add much value to make it worth playing?

also i normally never play table BJ much--i mostly stick to the machines. not because i think i will win money overall--its because of all the free rooms, and free play mailed to me, and for comps and cashback since im not a local las vegan and can really use rooms and stuff. i come to vegas every month and stay 2-3 months at a time, lots more time here than where i live. mostly to play poker $1-2 No limit.

so even though binions got rid of the good paying 3-2 machine and replaced it with the damned 6-5 single deck machine, i think this new promotion going on might still make it worth playing. id like others opinions to post here.

on sun and tues they will double all points. and also for right now if u cash in ur cashback, u also get the same amount in free play. well that essentially means ud get 4x what u normally would if u play the right days.

so for every $8 thru the machine--u get back 1 point and 40 points is worth $1 cashback. so every $320 thru the machines u get $1 back. not great, but if u do the promotion correctly u would get $4 for every $320 ran thru the machines. (which sounds very good cause thats over 1% cashback.) and considering the comp dollars--which i can use for rooms--is TWICE the cashback rate, (although no freeplay) i could also end up with $4 in comps for every $320 ran thru the machine if i played on the right days. meaning for every $320 ran thru the machine i get $4 cash and another $4 comps--for over 2% payback.

check my math, and wouldnt this mean even at 6-5 single deck rules--it does stand on soft 17--wouldnt it be worth playing? especially with surrender being legal and payouts for 7 cards, and if someone knows basic counting strategy for single deck, such as if its a new hand and u have 10-2 and the dealer has a 4 u hit instead of stand, but with a 9-3 u would stand.

please let me know what u think and if im wrong please tell me. i like to play these 3 spots at a time in the middle of the nite.

 

[Sucker]

According to Wizard of Odds, the six card charlie rule will add only .16% to the players' edge, but THAT'S if you're playing with 8 decks. I couldn't find the figure for single deck, but it has to be MUCH less. My guess is that it's probably about three or four times harder to do on single deck than on a shoe.

At this time, a blackjack at the Horseshoe pays 6/5 on all of its' 8-deck shoe games and all of its' single deck games, with the exception of two tables. They have one 8-deck game and one single deck game that does pay 3-2. The Horseshoe does NOT offer surrender at ANY of its' tables.

If you decide to play at the Horseshoe, you should ONLY play at one of these tables, and don't put too much faith in the strength of the 6-card rule. As I've stated, it won't put the odds in your favor, and it's almost insignificant for the single deck.

As for their cashback policy: The sign in front of the players' club clearly states that you can earn cashback from slots ONLY and NOT from table game play.

One more thing about the 'Shoe: Since the Four Queens took over ownership, their ability to handle big action has deteriorated tremendously. If you go in there to count cards, I'll lay you 2:1 that you're backed off within 20 minutes from the time your first black chip hits the table. In less than 20 years, the Horseshoe has gone from being the #1 place for action; to just another chicken-shi* downtown casino. Benny must be rolling over in his grave.... :sad:

 

[sabre]

Let me summarize what I think you're trying to say.

1) There's a sign in front of Binions that says that 6 card hands are automatic winners on Monday/Tuesday

2) There is a virtual blackjack machine in Binions that is a Single Deck, S17, LS, 6:5, 7 card auto win - that pays $4 in cashback for every $320 coin in, plus $4 in comps for $320 coin in.


Now, my analysis.

1) The 6 card winner rule probably doesn't apply to the virtual blackjack machine. It sounds like a promo applied to the real table games only. Even if it did apply, it's not adding too much.

2) The house advantage on the virtual blackjack machine is about 1.2% if double after split allowed, about 1.35% otherwise. This is with perfect COMPOSITION DEPENDENT STRATEGY. I doubt you're going to learn or apply that, so add about another .1% or so.

3) The $4 for $320 coin in works out to about a 1.2% return.


So given this, you're looking at anywhere from a break even to .25% house edge game, not including the comp dollars. So the question is whether the 1.2% bonus comp dollars are worth it to you.


If you decide it is worth it, I'd be damn sure to verify that your figures of $4 cashback PLUS $4 comps for $320 coin in is accurate, as well as that the blackjack game doesn't have any other detrimental rules (only double 9-11, no resplit, etc.)

Unsolicited Advice follows:

Having read some of your blog on allvegaspoker, I would suggest paying a homeless person $5/hr to follow you around and stab you in the hand with a fork every time you try to gamble on anything other than a poker game.

 

[Sonny]

...I would suggest paying a homeless person $5/hr to follow you around and stab you in the hand with a fork every time you try to gamble on anything other than a poker game.

Go down to the Western. There are plenty of people who will do it for free. There are also 3 BJ tables...and two of them are safe from the leaky ceiling.

-Sonny-

 

[shadroch]

I believe you are misreading the rules.
1) Binions has no rooms,the hotel is closed.
2) You get cashback and free slotplay, not comps.
3) Unless they have changed since Feb 14th, you do not earn one point for every eight thru the BJ machines, it is one per every $20.

My experiance at Binions/$ Queens is that minimal play will give you two/three nights free and $50 free slot play per month.

 

[Guynoire]

If you're trying to score free rooms at the 4 queens there's better ways to do it, they have 10/7 DB progressive up to dollars.

BTW, I like the 4 queens but I wouldn't work too hard to get free rooms because their rooms only cost $25 outright. You're better off card counting a good game an extra hour than spending a lot of time trying to get comps.

 

[sevencard2003]

guys--if this machine would be even money to only 25c loss on every $100 bet, with $1.20 back in comps, it would be worth it to me. why?

cause i need rooms anyway--and besides they arent in binions--they closed down their hotel--they are in the 4 queens. they accept binions comp dollars now. and a break period from poker is good idea--instead of playing just NL nonstop. also i know the correct strategy for deck composition of a single deck and how it variues from basic strategy--ask me a few questions as a test.

im pretty sure its 1 point for every $8 thru the machine--not counting the double points discussed above. when i bet $3 a hand on 3 spots, once i bet the third time, i scored a point. also when i bet $16, it would always give me 2 points. certainly isnt 1 point on $20.

u always get BOTH comp dollars put on ur card for all play PLUS the cashback and FREE PLAY. not just one or the other. i know. go down and play a while and see for urself.

my host brian knows ive played them a lot in the past, when they used to have the better paying 3-2 machine last summer. so i get $200 a month most of the time in free play offered to me by mail.

without this to do to take breaks from the poker tables, id probably end up playing a VP machine with much more variance and worse payback. better i do this. low variance.

 

[Guynoire]

I'm not familiar with the promo, but if you think you can get 1.25% cashback and 1.25% comps off a game that is essentially -1.35% EV then go for it as long as comps are worth full value to you.

The only thing is that depending on your skills it might not be the best use of your time and bankroll since the 4 queens has positive EV video poker available that you'll also earn cashback and comps on.

 

[shadroch]

In Febuary, I wanted to stay a day beyond my three free nites. I went to the Four Queens host office and asked what kind of play i'd need for another nite. He reviewed my play, told me I had averaged 350 points per day and if I gave him 800 that day, he'd comp my room. I asked him what rate I would pay if I just paid and he said $22. I paid the $22 and went to play at the EC.

Be aware that any free play you earn must be used the same day. I missed out on a few dollars worth because I didn't check in at the players club before midnite.