Ok, New topic

[Signaleer]

Guys, F clump counting.

Gosh, I think I may have been getting lucky.

Ok, point one. I posted that last message on the wrong board a few weeks back. Since then I have been practicing.

To all those that have CVBJ - so do I. And I have something to say. I invested 100 bucks in some nice 13.5 gram poker chips, and a few decks of cards, and let me tell you - throw the computers away.

I have been practicing, as my trip is coming up. And I want to tell you, the insights that come from sitting there, moving chips, dealing cards, keeping count, with the stereo or tv on, phone ringing now and then, can't be simulated. My counting has increased 10 fold in the last few weeks.

I am now almost using the KO Preferred system, and once in a while the RC will go to +8 or better and the insight you get is almost crazy. I have been really blown away.

In any case, I have a few questions.

I would like to understand what games I look for....

I know I am looking for DAS. I think I want Dealer to Stand on Soft 17. I would love Surrender, and 2 decks or so.

I think there is other stuff to look for as well?

Can someone help me?

Regards,

Signaleer...

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Sure

The KO system works just fine, and all the rules you mention are desirable. If you give me a general area where you live or are willing to travel to I and others here can recommend some games.

 

[phantom007]

What was your Initial Post???

Some more questions (I mean to be helpful):

1. You state "RC of +8 opens your eyes"....did you mean TC?

I ask simply because a RC of +8 in SD, or about 1/2 way through a DD is a a Boner/Mini-Boner, respectively, but in 6D, would be of minimal significance up to about 2 decks played, and even then, would only call for a slight "ramp-up".

2. What is your experience level? That is, first trip out as a CC'er?, or just 1st trip out with a new system?

AND SOME COMMENTS:

1. Yes, practicing with actual cards is a Must Do. As is practicing with noise and distractions, again, Congrats.

2. Practicing with actual chips probably a good idea as well...would look funny to the pit you sitting there trying to click a "Mouse" that was not present. Do not totally discount the computer stuff, will be of more value in terms of speed (and options) as you advance you skills. For example, if you use a computer at work, providing the screen is not visible to the hallway, you can be practicing various BJ modalities, while appearing to your boss that you are labouring for hours on some project!

AND MANY POSSIBLE ANSWERS to "What am I looking for"?

1. Characteristics of THE PERFECT GAME:

-----A. 100% Penetration...run out of cards, no problem, we will reshuffle the discards and keep on playing.
-----B. Great Rules...not necessarily in order, but DS17, DAS, RSA's, LS, Spl. to 4, DOA....and since this is pretty much fantasy, throw in a few "wildcards" such as Early Surrender and 6-card 21 beats Dealer BJ.
-----C. Tolerance...Casino's will tolerate WIDE spreads, realizing that the MOST CC'ers DO NOT HAVE THE B/R for same, thus, even with Expert Skill, will ultimately give it back...any many of these, being Human, will STEAM/TILT, and give even more back. All-the-while, their friends and co-workers, having heard of said CC'ers wins (but usually not losses), will flock to said stores, without skill, etc., etc.
-----D. Easy Comps...important to many.

2. SD is better for the Player (less -EV, easier to count), 6D is what the true Pro's play (less HEAT, and even EASIER TO COUNT, since usually dealt face-up). So DD must be best?...not necessarily...DEPENDS on PENETRATION, RULES, TOLERANCE, +/- COMPS (if important to you). No one best answer as to what you should be looking for...so many variables!

Hope this helps some. Again, post a few more "GENERAL Specifics", and some of us may be able to help even more!

Phantom007.

 

[phantom007]

Damn, there it is right below!

Ever since I took the Evlin Woody Sped Read'n course, ah has been hav'n a trouble read'n from down there to up here.

Oh well, sigh.

Phantom007.

 

[T21]

Re: What the true pro's play?

Phantom007,

In your second to last post in this message thread, you state a 6D game is what the true pros play.

How do you come up with that idea?

What is a proffessional to you?

There are many aspect of a cc that makes him a pro.

1. He can count the cards. (Pick a system)

2. Being able to camouflage his play

3. Master wonging

4. Picking the right games to exploit

5. Understanding his/her risk of ruin and betting accordingly

6. He can read people and understand when the heat is on/off

7. He can enjoy 5% or more advantage on the house table jumping

I'm not saying that proffessionals don't play 6D games. I believe that a proffessional is someone who does the above and when preperation meets opprotunity he does well. I think couting a six deck shoe is almost as easy as counting a DD game. Now I know it's a little bit harder, but why work harder when I can have a better percentage utilizing all of the above. Also, with the above you can make more money in a shorter amount of time. You don't have to work harder to be a pro.

T21

 

[stainless steel rat]

one answer

Pros like shoes, because many pros play on teams. SD/DD games generally don't let you wong in and out on a whim, while some shoe games do. If you want to call in a big player, it (a) takes time and (b) requires approval (i.e. no "no mid-shoe entry allowed"). Even if you could wong in on a good SD/DD game, by the time you get your big player in, the count has already gone south...

I personally play SD/DD 90% of the time, but then I'm not a "pro". I just like winning as much as possible, usually by myself, and those are the most beatable games assuming you know what to shop around and look for...

Of course, it is fun to wong in on a good shoe game, but I personally hate playing at crowded tables, and most shoes are that...

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Advanced AP

There are also the advanced techniques of shuffle tracking and ace sequences that are often more suited to shoe play. Plus the lack of heat and tolerance of large action. Sure, a silver or red player can have a lot of fun with SD in Reno but it's hard to be a pro playing silver or red. I can't imagine spreading black anywhere but a big place on the Strip or AC.

 

[stainless steel rat]

would not argue

with that. I've done elementary shuffle tracking, discovered the idea at an indian casino with a very simple shuffle.

I'm generally a red player (5-40 on DD for an example although I have played 25-100 as well.) I have played black twice in my life, once on a big winning streak in a decent DD game, once in Vegas as a smart-alec response to my wife.

As you can guess, I really don't know much about what goes on at the multiple-black level. Biggest single hand I have ever played was for $800, that at a $100 DD game, with three splits and doubles on all 4 hands. I've found I can make a fair amount of money at the current level I generally play, have a lot of fun, and play as much as I feel like playing. Biggest single-session win was almost $10,000 this past late summer/early fall, biggest single session loss was about $700 in Vegas last summer, where I played off and on for a week and ended up $500 in the hole.

I have probably had more "trouble" (heat) at $25 tables. But I have had my fair share at a $5 table as well although for at least a year, I have been playing a bit "wiser" (no 8 hour non-stop sessions) which has cut down the interactions with the pit...

I can only guess what a black (or purple) chip player would have to deal with. I'm not sure I'll ever find out.

 

[phantom007]

FIRST a PROFFESIONAL will at least spell PROFESIONAL Right......

Second, MD is preferred by most of the Names, i.e., the Mayor, Schlesinger, Wong, etc., in that there are much more Wonging opportunities.

With this said, please get your GED, then re-Post in a few years.

ph.7.

 

[Anonymous]

You mean PROFESSIONAL?

 

[The Mayor]

I had quite a different reaction to T21's post

T21 seemed to be someone with genuine experience.

My own take on this debate is that "normal" blackjack is not what professionals play, so the question is moot. Which 6D games have a trackable shuffle? WHich single deck games have hole card flashers? Which double deck games have advantageous side bets?

The truth is that pros know things that most others don't, and their choices are based on a level of skill that recognizes and exploits opportunities, however and whereever they arise.

This is spoken from a non-pro. But I know many pros, and none of them, not a single one, just play blackjack.

--Mayor

 

[The Mayor]

Review of posting guidelines...

From the posting guidelines:

"Also, on a human note, I ask that each of us be patient, not take things too personally, and always try and be as helpful as possible in our posts. Please allow others to be human. Little things like spelling or grammar are just not important. Happy posting!"

 

[suicyco maniac]

Posting Guidelines

>Little things like spelling or grammar are just not important. Happy posting!

Thank god!!!! I would never be allowed to post anything if that were the case. SM

 

[phantom007]

Please Accept Apology.....But I am just quite BITCHY Right Now!.....

Dear Poster:

I am going through Divorce, stupidly "signed-off" on an Interim agreement, wherein I send Satan 80% of my take-home pay, and am now having to work extra P/T jobs "just to pay the bills". I agreed to this agreement ONLY because I thought Divorce would take 2-3 months...now, I am into Month 12!

Anyhow, I take most any ATTACK....Personally. Not your problem!

Sorry if I flamed you. I APOLOGIZE!

Sorry if I offended this Board. I APOLOGIZE!

BUT THE GOOD NEWS:

1. I saved LOTS of $$$ by switching my Car Insurance to Geico!

2. Satan GOT A JOB!!!! Not official, as far as the Courts go, but from one of my kids, I now have Information/knowledge/belief that with her #2 BS Degrees, plus CPA and CFE Certification, AT LEAST SHE IS F#CKING EMPLOYABLE!

3. However, I still do not understand "Clump Countint" for SD...Please advise.

phantom007.

 

[The Mayor]

Been there, done that...

Satan gave me a 65k lawsuit as a wedding present when I remarried.

 

[North Wind]

It's important for the eye to see correct spelling..

especially if you are a poor speller. Otherwise, others are going to
start questioning their own correct spelling. The person corrected, might
feel a slight embarrassment,and will not likely make the same mistake
again. I'm sure we all subscribe to higher standards and need a friendly reminder now and then. Fuzzy thinking and poor presentation will soon
illicit ridicule.

My education really began when I started to post on the
internet, where nothing goes unchallenged, and rightly so.

 

[Counter Culture]

Grammar

especially if you are a poor speller.>(This is a sentence fragment with no subject, and no caps.) Otherwise,(no comma needed) others are going to
start questioning their own correct spelling. The person corrected,(again no comma needed) might
feel a slight embarrassment,and will not likely make the same mistake
again. I'm sure we all subscribe to higher standards and need a friendly reminder now and then. Fuzzy thinking and poor presentation will soon
illicit ridicule.

My education really began when I started to post on the
internet, where nothing goes unchallenged, and rightly so. (definite run-on)

LoL,
Peace Out

 

[BJforBooze]

Your illicit spelling may elicit ridicule

 

[North Wind]

Thanks!

I'll work on my commas. When your my age, you take a lot of pauses.

Before the internet, I didn't have access to soo many experts. What a
wonderful world.