One for the Experts to Argue

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waveslider

Member
never mind, my question was ; ) how does someones bad play not affect my play, is it because it is short term, or in the zone nothing matters but my perfect play ?
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
Waveslider - a few words of advice:
When you post a question, please include some content info in your title so we know what it's about. Many people only read posts that interest them, and having a title like "question" or "need advice" is very easy just to skip over.
 
KenSmith

KenSmith

Administrator
Staff member
This has been recently discussed at length. How another player plays their hands has no mathematical effect on your outcome. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hurts. In the long run, it doesn't matter at all.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
Oddly; how a player bets can have a dramatic effect on your results. That is; if someone is backcounting, wonging-out or splitting to multiple hands at a positive count; your results will be substantially harmed.
 
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Renzey

Well-Known Member
QFIT said:
Oddly; how a player bets can have a dramatic effect on your results. That is; if someone is backcounting, wonging-out or splitting to multiple hands at a positive count; your results will be substantially harmed.
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Norm,
It's understood that if somebody wongs in or grabs extra hands in a positive count, he'll be soaking up some of the other players' temporary advantage. But not realizing the "context" of your post, Waveliner might take your answer and run with it, saying, "See, I knew if the rum-dum at third base stands on 15 against an 8, he'll screw up my cards."

We need to impress upon him that it won't "screw up" his cards.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Renzey said:
Norm,
It's understood that if somebody wongs in or grabs extra hands in a positive count, he'll be soaking up some of the other players' temporary advantage. But not realizing the "context" of your post, Waveliner might take your answer and run with it, saying, "See, I knew if the rum-dum at third base stands on 15 against an 8, he'll screw up my cards."

We need to impress upon him that it won't "screw up" his cards.
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I agree - the very nature of Wavelider's question implies a deficient understanding of the math.

So, waveslider - NO, other players will NOT affect your outcome, statistically. zg
 
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waveslider

Member
I understand the Math

Thank you, I am more interestedin actual play, and exactly what one person said about wonging out ....hogging cards etc. I will no longer play with such players unless i am experiencing bountiful positive variance in spite of their play.
 
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zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
waveslider said:
Thank you, I am more interestedin actual play, and exactly what one person said about wonging out ....hogging cards etc. I will no longer play with such players unless i am experiencing bountiful positive variance in spite of their play.
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HOW would you recognize them?? zg
 
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dacium

Well-Known Member
Are there any books that look at the mathematics at this.

I know it can help and hurt, but it would ten to take more low cards than high cards and thus increase the count.

For example if a player going before you could draw a ten and bust, or he could draw two low cards and bust. The situations are not even, in one the count has gone down 1 and the other its gone up two. I would put a guess out that players hitting like crazy would be good for you.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
I agree - the very nature of Wavelider's question implies a deficient understanding of the math.

So, waveslider - NO, other players will NOT affect your outcome, statistically. zg
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Caveat. The play of their cards will not affect you. But, wonging, backcounting and splitting to multiple hands at a high count will have an effect. This is a substantial, permanent effect. If this happens at your table - leave.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
dacium said:
Are there any books that look at the mathematics at this.

I know it can help and hurt, but it would ten to take more low cards than high cards and thus increase the count.

For example if a player going before you could draw a ten and bust, or he could draw two low cards and bust. The situations are not even, in one the count has gone down 1 and the other its gone up two. I would put a guess out that players hitting like crazy would be good for you.
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Or one high card and one low card. It doesn't matter. The remaining cards have an average count. He can't change the order of the cards.
 
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Mr. T

Well-Known Member
It matters, It doesn't matters.

I notice that there are some big guns on this thread, Ken ,Rensey and others. So I will add my 2 cents worth here.
This topic would be the eternal arguement for BJ. It has nothing to do with who is right or wrong here, the math or the knowledge of BJ. BJ is the game where how you play your cards will impact on other player's card and bet and money.
Unfortunately it tends to show up the worst side of human nature or show their anti-social nature. There are these 3 anti-social behavior we find on the BJ tables.
!. Some people are just bad losers. It is not a matter of luck even but the other guy's funny play is the reason why they are losing. Don't have to look very far to blame some other guy.
2. There are people who think they are very smart especially the know-something guy. I always fear them as I don't really know what they know and if you don't play exactly like them then you are not only stupid but you ruin the game for the whole table.
3. The guy who drinks too much and get hostile very quickly. I understand that unlike other drugs alcohol tends to make people aggressive and hostile.
So what else is new.
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
Of course there is a right or wrong and the math always matters. There is no argument among BJ experts. How you play your hand has no effect on other players if you are not a counter. If you are a counter; it can have an overall insignificant effect in highly unusual circumstances.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Mr. T said:
I notice that there are some big guns on this thread, Ken ,Rensey and others. So I will add my 2 cents worth here.
This topic would be the eternal arguement for BJ. It has nothing to do with who is right or wrong here, the math or the knowledge of BJ. BJ is the game where how you play your cards will impact on other player's card and bet and money.
2. There are people who think they are very smart especially the know-something guy. I always fear them as I don't really know what they know and if you don't play exactly like them then you are not only stupid but you ruin the game for the whole table.
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You just added 3-cents of ...VOODOO. zg
 
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sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
QFIT said:
Of course there is a right or wrong and the math always matters. There is no argument among BJ experts. ........
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is The Theory of Blackjack by Peter Griffin considered the best mathematical treatment of blackjack math, bookwise?
it's virtualy greek to me, i'd like to see it translated in layman's terms.
 
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