Oscar's Grind... Don't do it!

[ko_preferred]

New member here and thought I'd relate my Oscars Grind story that just happened over the weekend...
I recently spent some time to learn to count. I also did some reading at this forum(I've been a lurker for about a year) on Oscar's Grind. I dealt a BUNCH(thousands) of hands to myself to see if it could work. After my pseudo-crappy simulation(where the worst I did before winning $200 was to have to buy in for $4000- it didn't seem so bad when it's not real money ), tried in a casino with real money. I took $1100 in and sat at a $10 table. After a few winning cycles, got to the point where my bet was $50. Seven straight losses later, I gave up on that garbage and went back to counting. 5 hours of counting later, I left the casino with $135 of their money. I'm now a firm believer that the only way to beat the house is with counting. I was hoping to use Oscars Grind to get in and out quick with a $200 winning session. A lot of the time you will, but when the losses happen, they happen quick! Do yourself a favor. Take the time to learn to count cards. It's not that hard and the peace of mind you gain when sitting at the table is priceless. It's wonderful knowing you have the advantage and that eventually you will grind out a profit.
I'm now kicking myself because except for that experiment that cost me $350 in about 20 minutes, I had a really good night at the tables and could have been up a lot more than $135...

 

[shadroch]

The whole idea of Oscars Grind is to Grind away. No offense,but you lost $350 and quit. You entered a marathon and quit when you were trailing after five miles.
You had tested it plenty of times and had seen how volitile it is,but got scared when using real money.
Suppose you were counting and it called for a max bet. You split 8s,draw a 3,double down and get an Ace. Other hand pulls another 8,blah,blah,blah. You end up losing five Max bets in thirty seconds.
Are you going to post that counting doesn't work?
If you prefer to count over playing the Grind,I applaud you. What I don't understand is how your results at the table were any different than the results at your kitchen table.
Would you somehow not lost the seven hands in a row by counting? You hit a run of not that unusual variance and got scared. Thats a flaw you need to correct,not the systems.
With $1100, spreading 1-5,you have 20 big bets. I'd say your chances of getting wiped out are not very small. Perhaps greater than by grinding.

 

[ko_preferred]

Absolutely right!

You're absolutely right Shadroch. I did get scared. I just figured I'd share one story of why progression systems don't work. Actually, I think Oscars Grind might be ok if you brought $10k or so into the casino in order to win $10 cycles with a win target of $200. I just wanted to point out the stark difference between sim and reality. When you try it at home, it's no big deal to go down 800 or $1000 in order to win that 10 bucks. At the casino, you're thinking "Sheesh! there goes 1/5(or 1/2, or whatever) of my bankroll!". I was one who would read these boards and start to think that the quick hit with a progression was the way to go. I was hoping to get others that might be thinking similarly to think twice before going into a casino and losing a lot of real money.
I also wanted to point out that those "rare" 7 loss runs that others seem to be relying on NOT happening in order for their progression to work happen quite frequently. For me it was more like 10. Once I went back to table min I still lost 3 more hands. So if you're in a progression, be prepared to lose. Well be prepared to lose no matter what since we're gambling, right? But it's a much better feeling knowing that if you are keeping track properly, eventually the profits will come your way. With a progression, you don't have that luxury.

 

[shadroch]

So how was the count when you lost the ten hands in a row? If the dealer was making multi -card hands,theres a good chance the count was going up, and you'd have big bets out. you can easily drop half a session bankroll if you are underfunded.
Lessons to be learned- be funded properly for what you are doing and scared money doesn't cut it.

 

[ko_preferred]

Again absolutely right.

I was using Oscars Grind at the time so I don't know what the count was... remember the 7 in a row at $50? I played out the rest of the shoe at table min after the 7 losses, where the next 3 hands also lost. Once I started counting, my money was no longer scared. There were a few times where the count called for max bet and I lost(there were a few more where I won), but I was not distraught at all because I knew I was betting and playing properly based on the count. It was nothing like the angst I felt wondering if and when I'm going to make my money back after going down $350 quick.

 

[Kasi]

New member here and thought I'd relate my Oscars Grind story that just happened over the weekend...
I recently spent some time to learn to count. I also did some reading at this forum(I've been a lurker for about a year) on Oscar's Grind. I dealt a BUNCH(thousands) of hands to myself to see if it could work. After my pseudo-crappy simulation(where the worst I did before winning $200 was to have to buy in for $4000- it didn't seem so bad when it's not real money ), tried in a casino with real money. I took $1100 in and sat at a $10 table. After a few winning cycles, got to the point where my bet was $50. Seven straight losses later, I gave up on that garbage and went back to counting. 5 hours of counting later, I left the casino with $135 of their money. I'm now a firm believer that the only way to beat the house is with counting. I was hoping to use Oscars Grind to get in and out quick with a $200 winning session. A lot of the time you will, but when the losses happen, they happen quick! Do yourself a favor. Take the time to learn to count cards. It's not that hard and the peace of mind you gain when sitting at the table is priceless. It's wonderful knowing you have the advantage and that eventually you will grind out a profit.
I'm now kicking myself because except for that experiment that cost me $350 in about 20 minutes, I had a really good night at the tables and could have been up a lot more than $135...

Well, for one, I think Oscar's grind is mostly for even-payoff games like craps or roulette.

For another, to win 200 you'd have to win your unit 20 times in a row. That's alot more likely to happen with 400 units than 110 units. Apparently, in reality you were only using a 35 unit roll if that is what you lost before quitting.

Not saying you did the wrong thing in quitting or anything, or recommending it any way, just mentioning stuff lol.

 

[shadroch]

I use it for craps, just to build comps.

 

[Kasi]

I use it for craps, just to build comps.

Nice! And then some. That's something I understand. Just what a betting system is for. And used in the right game. Very very cool. To me anyway lol.

Love to hear any details of how it has been working for you. Or even broad generalities lol.

No big deal though. None of my business. Enough to know someone somewhere actually uses it with a purpose.

Like I go look for my ball 20 yards deep in the woods, 60 yards from the tee and, lo and behold, I find 5 other balls right next to mine and am greatly comforted that, as bad as my shot was, I am not alone after all lol.

Let's form an Oscar's Grind Society lol.

 

[shadroch]

I've never had a bad session. I've had sessions where I was down and beginning to worry a bit,but never got into more than a third of my BR. As a cash game,I've done poorly. Factor in the comps the casinos keep sending me and I'm A-OK. This year,my biggest win is $50, done in about twenty minutes. My biggest loss is $10. I was down almost $150,got it back to even,and left on a small losing streak because I was bored. That casino routinely sends me several free nights a month,and just sent me a magazine with several hundred dollars in matchplay coupons.

 

[sagefr0g]

Well, for one, I think Oscar's grind is mostly for even-payoff games like craps or roulette.
....

what's even-payoff mean?
edit: pays x to x i guess?

 

[Shwam]

I've never had a bad session. I've had sessions where I was down and beginning to worry a bit,but never got into more than a third of my BR. As a cash game,I've done poorly. Factor in the comps the casinos keep sending me and I'm A-OK. This year,my biggest win is $50, done in about twenty minutes. My biggest loss is $10. I was down almost $150,got it back to even,and left on a small losing streak because I was bored. That casino routinely sends me several free nights a month,and just sent me a magazine with several hundred dollars in matchplay coupons.

What is this betting system and how do you use it at craps?

 

[Kasi]

what's even-payoff mean?
edit: pays x to x i guess?

Yeah lots of laugh - I wasn't very specific - bets like RED and BLACK in roulette or Pass or Dont PASS in craps that have the 1-1 payoff. It's all about winning that 1 unit. Martingdale sucks for BJ too for the same reason.

 

[Kasi]

I've never had a bad session...

Glad to hear it.

Maybe it takes one to know one as they say lol, but, and I hope you don't take it the wrong way, the highest compliment I can give you, from one professional to another, is that I was a pretty darn good "bonus whore" in my time and proud of it and I've come to the conclusion you gotta be one of the best damn "comp-whores" I've ever come across. A credit to our profession :grin:

Gentleman, join me in saluting one of the best :grin:

 

[shadroch]

What is this betting system and how do you use it at craps?

google it. Read everything,warts and all.

 

[blackjack avenger]

The Trophy Goes To!

Oscar's Grind
Trophy for
The best of the worst!
Progressions don't work, but this is probably the best.

 

[tedwards]

Worked for me!

I just returned from a cruise and won $2330 playing Oscar's Grind with $5 units.

I bought 20 reds to start, played 14 sessions totalling 12 hours, winning between $110 and $270 per session. Never lost.

I did make a couple of changes to the grind. If my bet only took me to even I added one unit. For example, when losing the first hand, I bet 2 units on the second. Also, if my bet did not get me back to even I only bet half of the deficit. Example: Down 8 with a bet of six I only bet 4. However, if I lost that reduced bet, I would increase to what my bet would have been.

The most I went down was 84 units once and 76 units another time. In those situations I shifted to a $25 unit when I got back to less than 30 units down.

This is the third time I've used the grind. The first trip I played 8 hours and won $720, the second 5 hours and won $240, and this one 12 hours and won $2330.

So it works for me.

 

[picasso]

Oscars Grind
I took $1100 in and sat at a $10 table.

I have never played The Grind in a Casino, but if I did, (10$ table), what would be a reasonable bankroll?

(stay home is not a good answer )

 

[shadroch]

On a $10 table, I would say a minimum of $500. A grand would bet better. I find almost every long session produces at least one sequence where you are down 20-30 units. It's surprising how long it generally takes to be down thirty units, and how quickly you can recover. Say you are down 30,betting 5 units. A mini-streak of 4 wins gets you even, after dropping perhaps 16 out of the last 18.
But the time will come when you lose your entire BR, no matter if its 500,1000 or 13,000. Playing OG is a slow,hard way to ez money.

 

[Kasi]

On a $10 table, I would say a minimum of $500. A grand would bet better. I find almost every long session produces at least one sequence where you are down 20-30 units. It's surprising how long it generally takes to be down thirty units, and how quickly you can recover. Say you are down 30,betting 5 units. A mini-streak of 4 wins gets you even, after dropping perhaps 16 out of the last 18.
But the time will come when you lose your entire BR, no matter if its 500,1000 or 13,000. Playing OG is a slow,hard way to ez money.

So you use Oscar at a BJ table? I just don't see how Oscar would work at a BJ table - like it just wouldn't be Oscar, it would be some other betting system.

Not that it wouldn't maybe close or something but it wouln't be "Oscar" lol.

 

[shadroch]

So you use Oscar at a BJ table? I just don't see how Oscar would work at a BJ table - like it just wouldn't be Oscar, it would be some other betting system.

Not that it wouldn't maybe close or something but it wouln't be "Oscar" lol.

Why?
I just played about 30 hours on a $1 minimum BJ machine. My goal was to win $25 a session and while I put in a $100 bill,I was ready with another. My mathamutations reckoned I'd achieve my goal well over 90% of the time.( I'd win $225 and lose $200), but I never came close to losing even the full $100.
This was on a multi-player machine ,6D,H17,DAS,DOA,that I thought worked as a CSM but have since learned that it does shuffle after 2/3 penetration. I just didn't recognize the shuffle point. I played it only on the days and hours that they gave double slot points for play, but with the slowness of the game- 50-60 hands an hour,the comps didn't add up to much.
Not having a dealer to tip, I earned a whopping $8 an hour.