PA casinos' report card

[Tico]

The report card for PA casinos are in (see below). I just recently visited a PA casino and felt...wow... PA offers much better games than AC...i.e., even thought it was at a "busy" evening, that casino still offers 8 tables of 10-buck-6deckers with decent pens & rules...for which AC counters will die for. Why can't AC casinos do what PA casinos do... while PA casinos are still making a ton of money (i.e., $88,982,696 for 2.5 months) like the report card shows below?

While AC casinos' revenues have been dropping down and down monthly...PA casinos' revenues go up and up. Go figure (hint: something to do with decent game rules that take away gamblers & AP wannabies from AC casinos, )

Report card for PA casinos as of 9/30/2010

$17,561,398 	$34,555,172 	$36,866,126 	$88,982,696 	Gross Revenue
07/31/2010	08/31/2010	09/30/2010	07/18~09/30/2010	
				
				The 10 PA casinos are:
				
				Bethlehem
				Sands Casino Resort Bethlehem
				
				Mount Pocono
				Mount Airy Casino Resort
				
				Philadelphia
				Sugar House Casino
				
				Pittsburgh
				Rivers Casino
				
				Bensalem
				PhiladelphiaPark Casino and Racetrack
				
				Chester
				Harrah's Chester Casino & Racetrack
				
				Erie
				Presque Isle Downs & Casino
				
				Grantville
				Hollywood Casino at Penn National Race Course
				
				Meadow Lands
				The Meadows Racetrack and Casino
				
				Wilkes-Barre
				Mohegan Sun at Pocono Downs

 

[BJgenius007]

The report card for PA casinos are in (see below). I just recently visited a PA casino and felt...wow... PA offers much better games than AC...i.e., even thought it was at a "busy" evening, that casino still offers 8 tables of 10-buck-6deckers with decent pens & rules...for which AC counters will die for. Why can't AC casinos do what PA casinos do... while PA casinos are still making a ton of money (i.e., $88,982,696 for 2.5 months) like the report card shows below?

While AC casinos' revenues have been dropping down and down monthly...PA casinos' revenues go up and up. Go figure (hint: something to do with decent game rules that take away gamblers & AP wannabies from AC casinos, )

Report card for PA casinos as of 9/30/2010

$17,561,398 	$34,555,172 	$36,866,126 	$88,982,696 	Gross Revenue
07/31/2010	08/31/2010	09/30/2010	07/18~09/30/2010	
				
				The 10 PA casinos are:
				
				Bethlehem
				Sands Casino Resort Bethlehem
				
				Mount Pocono
				Mount Airy Casino Resort
				
				Philadelphia
				Sugar House Casino
				
				Pittsburgh
				Rivers Casino
				
				Bensalem
				PhiladelphiaPark Casino and Racetrack
				
				Chester
				Harrah's Chester Casino & Racetrack
				
				Erie
				Presque Isle Downs & Casino
				
				Grantville
				Hollywood Casino at Penn National Race Course
				
				Meadow Lands
				The Meadows Racetrack and Casino
				
				Wilkes-Barre
				Mohegan Sun at Pocono Downs

I don't know if this could last forever. Right now 66% of tables in PA are using CSM. So basically counters go to the few tables with ASM while ploppies donate their money to casinos at CSM tables. Once the ploppies' money dries out, the casino owners have to turn on counters to maintain their profit level. Just like Wheeling Island was once the best casino in USA. One year later, only counters came to play so casino no longer stay at soft 17 and the penetration is getting worse every day.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I don't know if this could last forever. Right now 66% of tables in PA are using CSM. So basically counters go to the few tables with ASM while ploppies donate their money to casinos at CSM tables. Once the ploppies' money dries out, the casino owners have to turn on counters to maintain their profit level. Just like Wheeling Island was once the best casino in USA. One year later, only counters came to play so casino no longer stay at soft 17 and the penetration is getting worse every day.

If ploppies money ever "dried out" then Las Vegas and Atlantic City would have disappeared decades ago.

 

[BJgenius007]

If ploppies money ever "dried out" then Las Vegas and Atlantic City would have disappeared decades ago.

Not my point. Rules in LV and AC are only getting worse, never getting better. Ploppies' may not run out of money. But they will get poorer after casino opens for one year or so.

 

[aslan]

There's a [ploppy] born every minute. P.T. Barnum

 

[tensplitter]

The PA casinos draw locals, many of which have gambling addictions. Their money will not run out because their paychecks will go towards supporting their gambling addiction. Then again, I have a gambling addiction but since I only play positive expected value games it won't have a negative effect on my finances.

The people that go to casinos for entertainment (which is what casinos are intended for) would limit their losses, and are more likely to go to AC and have a good time there.

 

[aslan]

The PA casinos draw locals, many of which have gambling addictions. Their money will not run out because their paychecks will go towards supporting their gambling addiction. Then again, I have a gambling addiction but since I only play positive expected value games it won't have a negative effect on my finances.

The people that go to casinos for entertainment (which is what casinos are intended for) would limit their losses, and are more likely to go to AC and have a good time there.

If you have a gambling addiction, it could easily result in poor judgment when those spiraling losses in positive counts occur. I know that I have a difficult time betting within my bankroll during those episodes, and often fail. It may be off-topic, but how do you handle such situations, especially since you are a self-proclaimed gambling addict?

 

[YumaTow]

If you have a gambling addiction, it could easily result in poor judgment when those spiraling losses in positive counts occur. I know that I have a difficult time betting within my bankroll during those episodes, and often fail. It may be off-topic, but how do you handle such situations, especially since you are a self-proclaimed gambling addict?

I can see his angle. There's a difference between an addiction and...an addiction. I smoke, so I'm addicted. Contrast that to an alcoholic, I suppose. Some people can't function normally, or at all in some cases, without their 'thing'. I can function normally without smoking, I might get irritated at times but I've gone a week or two without one. It's just something I need to do.

People with serious dependencies, I suppose like your drug addicts or severe alcoholics, can not literally function without getting their fix of whatever.

I guess what he's saying is that he really likes it; he needs some form of it every so often and that time spent is good times. However he's also educated and smart about the game. That's a stark contrast between some other people I've seen that run to every ATM on the floor trying to get some money just so they can continue; they can't function without pulling that lever one more time, and may do things like people said above -dropping paychecks or using money that's already spoken for. Makes sense to me.

 

[Tico]

BjEinstein: I don't know if this could last forever. Right now 66% of tables in PA are using CSM. So basically counters go to the few tables with ASM while ploppies donate their money to casinos at CSM tables. Once the ploppies' money dries out, the casino owners have to turn on counters to maintain their profit level. Just like Wheeling Island was once the best casino in USA. One year later, only counters came to play so casino no longer stay at soft 17 and the penetration is getting worse every day.


Dye: If ploppies money ever "dried out" then Las Vegas and Atlantic City would have disappeared decades ago.

Bj: Not my point. Rules in LV and AC are only getting worse, never getting better. Ploppies' may not run out of money. But they will get poorer after casino opens for one year or so.

10Splitter: The PA casinos draw locals, many of which have gambling addictions. Their money will not run out because their paychecks will go towards supporting their gambling addiction. Then again, I have a gambling addiction but since I only play positive expected value games it won't have a negative effect on my finances.
The people that go to casinos for entertainment (which is what casinos are intended for) would limit their losses, and are more likely to go to AC and have a good time there.

BjEinstein, Dyepaintball12, 10splitter: good points. APs' salvation will come in a form of new casinos, which will open up for tax revenues in every State of the Union. For example, New York City Aquaduct Race Track will likely open up as a slots-casino in around this Summer. After reading PA casinos' report card, New York State Tax Department will surely want to make some more cash-cows aka casinos just like PA's.

The Empire State may not be the only one. Sooner or later, even the Mormons in Utah and the Aloha-Guys in Hawaii will give in and have casinos for the sole purpose of bringing in tax revenues. As shown in PGCB website, PA collected $14,237,222.74 in State & Local taxes within 2.5 months from casinos... The amount of $14,237,222.74 works out to be around 16% of $88,982,697.01 casinos' gross revenues. The 16% taxes seem like a painless taxation...Why wouldn't other States "clone" PA's cash cows? What do you guys think?

 

[aslan]

I can see his angle. There's a difference between an addiction and...an addiction. I smoke, so I'm addicted. Contrast that to an alcoholic, I suppose. Some people can't function normally, or at all in some cases, without their 'thing'. I can function normally without smoking, I might get irritated at times but I've gone a week or two without one. It's just something I need to do.

People with serious dependencies, I suppose like your drug addicts or severe alcoholics, can not literally function without getting their fix of whatever.

I guess what he's saying is that he really likes it; he needs some form of it every so often and that time spent is good times. However he's also educated and smart about the game. That's a stark contrast between some other people I've seen that run to every ATM on the floor trying to get some money just so they can continue; they can't function without pulling that lever one more time, and may do things like people said above -dropping paychecks or using money that's already spoken for. Makes sense to me.

I'm definitely not accusing him or criticizing him of anything, just interested in whether he has any difficulty keeping his AP play in check. His reply could contain helpful advice to many of us. BTW, your points are well taken.

 

[bjcardcounter]

BjEinstein, Dyepaintball12, 10splitter: good points. APs' salvation will come in a form of new casinos, which will open up for tax revenues in every State of the Union. For example, New York City Aquaduct Race Track will likely open up as a slots-casino in around this Summer. After reading PA casinos' report card, New York State Tax Department will surely want to make some more cash-cows aka casinos just like PA's.

The Empire State may not be the only one. Sooner or later, even the Mormons in Utah and the Aloha-Guys in Hawaii will give in and have casinos for the sole purpose of bringing in tax revenues. As shown in PGCB website, PA collected $14,237,222.74 in State & Local taxes within 2.5 months from casinos... The amount of $14,237,222.74 works out to be around 16% of $88,982,697.01 casinos' gross revenues. The 16% taxes seem like a painless taxation...Why wouldn't other States "clone" PA's cash cows? What do you guys think?

So, no one will reach home with their paycheck. Tax revenue is one thing - making it easy for people to become addicted is another major thing which can screw up the generations to come.

 

[tensplitter]

If you have a gambling addiction, it could easily result in poor judgment when those spiraling losses in positive counts occur. I know that I have a difficult time betting within my bankroll during those episodes, and often fail. It may be off-topic, but how do you handle such situations, especially since you are a self-proclaimed gambling addict?

I wasn't a gambling addict before I learned to count cards, I used to just visit casinos for entertainment once every few months. I know better than to use a progression to recoup my losses, and I don't bet more than the min when the count is negative. I have a max bet and I stick to it, unless the count is higher than anything I've ever seen before, in which case I bet more.
I also usually don't play negative games, except for comps or avoiding heat. If I do play a negative game, I set aside no more than $100 and stop playing once I lose it. And I find ways to reduce the house edge as much as possible, such as by looking at other player's cards in Texas Hold Em Bonus.

 

[aslan]

I wasn't a gambling addict before I learned to count cards, I used to just visit casinos for entertainment once every few months. I know better than to use a progression to recoup my losses, and I don't bet more than the min when the count is negative. I have a max bet and I stick to it, unless the count is higher than anything I've ever seen before, in which case I bet more.
I also usually don't play negative games, except for comps or avoiding heat. If I do play a negative game, I set aside no more than $100 and stop playing once I lose it. And I find ways to reduce the house edge as much as possible, such as by looking at other player's cards in Texas Hold Em Bonus.

One problem I have had in the past is that if I hit a negative variance in a plus count and lose a large amount, I may jump from a $10 game to a $25 game in an effort to recoup my losses. This has sometimes resulted in bailing me out, but has also resulted in digging a bigger hole. I do not have a bankroll adequate to support constantly betting $25 min games, so this is a dumb move I guess, and shoots my RoR through the roof. Have you faced this and how do you deal with it?

 

[Thunder]

Aslan, you just have to be mentally prepared to lose. Expect yourself to lose and be happy when you win. Set a point for which is the maximum loss you will take for the trip and stick with it. Believe me, I know it sucks walking out a loser especially when you get gut punched like I was in just two shoes but it will save you over the long run as you won't do silly things like going to a higher limit table that you can't afford to be playing at.

 

[aslan]

Aslan, you just have to be mentally prepared to lose. Expect yourself to lose and be happy when you win. Set a point for which is the maximum loss you will take for the trip and stick with it. Believe me, I know it sucks walking out a loser especially when you get gut punched like I was in just two shoes but it will save you over the long run as you won't do silly things like going to a higher limit table that you can't afford to be playing at.

Good advice.

 

[mathman]

Plant your feet.

Aslan,
Allot of people think that if you can count cards it means you will always win because you have an advantage. Counting cards identifies when the cards have swung in the players favor, every player, counter or not. Being a counter provides you with the information so that you can raise your bet during those times. It doesn't mean those cards will land in front of you. Recognizing what you can afford for bigger bets and working down from there is important to your success. Your bigger bets are your real bets and your base bet should be small change you need to spend to stay in the game so you can be there when it's time to really bet. Lower your expectation of a win and concentrate on letting your smaller winning sessions add up into something. Playing red to green you shouldn't expect to break the bank. Concentrate on playing when you feel that you have an advantage, the rest of the game is just waiting. You do not need to make up for losses every session. The casino will still be there tomorrow. Playing when desperate and over betting yourself will only lead to ruin. If no matter what you are losing take a break, switch tables or leave. Do not over bet yourself. When you move to a $25 table you've just crossed the line from being an AP to being a gambler. An AP doesn't gamble, an AP plays to win. It's important that you provide yourself with the tools to win. Knowledge, skill, a clear calm mind, and the proper bankroll. A bankroll that makes your larger bets your normal bets and your base bets small change....MM
.

 

[aslan]

Aslan,
Allot of people think that if you can count cards it means you will always win because you have an advantage. Counting cards identifies when the cards have swung in the players favor, every player, counter or not. Being a counter provides you with the information so that you can raise your bet during those times. It doesn't mean those cards will land in front of you. Recognizing what you can afford for bigger bets and working down from there is important to your success. Your bigger bets are your real bets and your base bet should be small change you need to spend to stay in the game so you can be there when it's time to really bet. Lower your expectation of a win and concentrate on letting your smaller winning sessions add up into something. Playing red to green you shouldn't expect to break the bank. Concentrate on playing when you feel that you have an advantage, the rest of the game is just waiting. You do not need to make up for losses every session. The casino will still be there tomorrow. Playing when desperate and over betting yourself will only lead to ruin. If no matter what you are losing take a break, switch tables or leave. Do not over bet yourself. When you move to a $25 table you've just crossed the line from being an AP to being a gambler. An AP doesn't gamble, an AP plays to win. It's important that you provide yourself with the tools to win. Knowledge, skill, a clear calm mind, and the proper bankroll. A bankroll that makes your larger bets your normal bets and your base bets small change....MM
.

Actually, when I move to a $25 table I am not gambling; I am just increasing the amount I wished to dedicate to my bankroll. I am still only max betting when I have a 2% or better advantage. The bad judgment is that I didn't want to increase my replenishible bankroll amount. Make sense?

Gambling is when I play a game in which I have no advantage, or when I bet higher than I can afford.

 

[mathman]

Sorry Aslan and yes that makes sense. I read into your post what I have witnessed many times and for that I am sorry. Usually when a frustrated, losing player moves to a higher limit table they actually bet less units therefore giving up their advantage. As long as you're playing it the way you should you're smarter than many. Most have a difficult time with the "money" involved with their bigger bets. Other than that I hope you understood what I was trying to tell you. I know what I've said is nothing new but recognizing that counting just provides you with information and betting should be painless is important to a players "mental health" in the long run. Good luck!....MM

 

[aslan]

Sorry Aslan and yes that makes sense. I read into your post what I have witnessed many times and for that I am sorry. Usually when a frustrated, losing player moves to a higher limit table they actually bet less units therefore giving up their advantage. As long as you're playing it the way you should you're smarter than many. Most have a difficult time with the "money" involved with their bigger bets. Other than that I hope you understood what I was trying to tell you. I know what I've said is nothing new but recognizing that counting just provides you with information and betting should be painless is important to a players "mental health" in the long run. Good luck!....MM

I wish there was a way to make the good cards land on your place, but there is a way to enhance that possibility. Once when I spread to two hands in a plus count I received a blackjack on both hands. Very pleasing--and no one said anything, unlike the time I raised my bet 10 times in a plus count and hit a single blackjack and the ploppy lady next to me said, "You always know when to raise your bet. Are you a card counter?" I don't know whether I turned visibly red, but I did my best to pretend that her remark was off the mark. I think I said something like, "I wish I could count, but I can only get up to 8 or 10 cards and I start to forget them." No one thought that was a stupid remark.

Spreading to two or three hands at 80% max bet is one way to enhance your chances for those "good" cards. But it's a real panic when you're betting three hands and the dealer hits a stiff for twenty-one. :laugh: BTW, when betting three hands, should you reduce your bets to 60%? Or do most of you keep it at 75/80%?

 

[nybroker]

If ploppies money ever "dried out" then Las Vegas and Atlantic City would have disappeared decades ago.

PA casinos have more degenerate gamblers than anywhere i have ever seen in my life.