Pit boss on the phone

[TeamProfit]

Hey everyone ,

I work for a customer service department and i had a call today from an older gentlemen.

He was explaining the problem that he was having and I explained to him what I can do for him and he agreed, so while I was getting his info I noticed he lives in Las Vegas, NV...........so I said you must go to the casino all the time

In which he replied that he is now retired but he use to work in the casino(blackjack table dealer and pit boss). I then went ahead and told him it must have been interesting especially catching those card counters. lol

He said yea, after a while they were easy to spot, especially when they were placing higher bets. I laughed and then he went on speaking about the problem he was having

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Anyways my point for bringing this up......Interesting story and I would like to know what you guys think.

He said they weren't hard to spot....??? Can you guys give me more detail on why he would say this??

Me personally, I think some gamblers place high bets and some actually go by betting systems........so do they really base their facts on the way people bet to decide if they are counters??

If you have come across pit bosses, dealers, etc; please post your experience

 

[moo321]

If this guy was sharp, and knew a lot about counting, no they wouldn't be hard to spot. Most bosses today aren't sharp. They are primarily there to stop employee theft and outright cheating, as well as do accounting work.

 

[callipygian]

Let me speak in very general terms.

In general, it's very dangerous to accept any sort of "personal anecdote" story as broad-application truth, because you're getting the story through two mental filters - the filter of what someone perceives versus what actually happened, and the filter of what you hear versus what someone says.

For example, in this case, you have zero evidence that this guy ever caught a counter. He might have booted everyone who bet big, and cost the casino a ton of money by 86'ing ploppies. He might not even know he did this, because in his mind every time he booted someone he thought he was right. Secondly, you have zero evidence he's telling the truth about what he actually thinks. A lot of people tell lies/exaggerations to make their lives more interesting.

Are SOME counters easy to spot? Yes. Are MOST counters easy to spot? Hard to tell without an independent method of spotting counters.

Should you make efforts to be hard to spot? Yes. Should you make efforts to be hard to spot solely because of the story this guy told you? No.

 

[TeamProfit]

I just posted the story because I found it interesting that I spoke to a retired pit boss............i'm not going to say I believed him 100% but in reality he had no reason to lie to me, I asked the card counting comment as a joke and i'm sure that is what he understood also. Now as far as wanting to make his life more interesting by lying, that can be true....

I basically posted this because i'm new to counting and everything is still new to me so I found it interesting and I wanted to see what other people have experienced...........(I haven't even played at a casino yet lol, i'm waiting until I have everything down packed to play, but i'm a go for the first time next week just to practice backcounting live lol)

 

[callipygian]

he had no reason to lie to me

Many people lie to themselves - just one last bet, I'm a social drinker, she would have broken up with me if I didn't break up with her, it's not cheating if it's just oral, etc. - in many cases to try and convince themselves they did something good (or they didn't do something bad).

I basically posted this because i'm new to counting and everything is still new to me so I found it interesting and I wanted to see what other people have experienced.

It really, really varies, and you'll hear stories from both extreme. In general, smaller casinos care more than big casinos, casinos care more about big bettors than small bettors, and there is a list of stereotypes that pit bosses often look for (white, quiet, thin, etc.). Casino personnel are often hypersensitized to counters after they catch a big one, so if you have the misfortune of playing your usual heat-free $5-$20 shoe game right after a team hit the casino for $1.5 million the previous night, you might get the short end of the stick with no warning.

There are things you should always take care not to do. A partial list:

- Count out loud. (seriously, duh)
- Watch other players' cards like a hawk.
- Crane your neck to look at the discards (especially if you're at 3rd base).
- Immediately drop from your max bet to a min bet at the shuffle.
- Split TT at high counts.

The best way, however, to appear natural is to take 15 minutes at a casino and observe people as they play, walk by, sit down, etc. Notice where people are looking when the dealer is shuffling. Notice how fast they walk by the tables. Notice every little thing you can, and then be exactly like that.

 

[Pro21]

Most pit bosses know very little about the games they are watching, yet they will claim to know everything. How many pit bosses have you heard say that "even money is the one sure bet in blackjack." Walk up to any crap table and ask a boss which bet has a higher house advantage, a hard 8 or a big 8 and watch them start to stammer.

On the other hand, card counters are very easy to spot. Haven't you experienced walking through a casino, seeing a guy at a table, and saying to yourself, "that guy is counting" without seeing him play a single hand?

 

[Renzey]

On the other hand, card counters are very easy to spot. Haven't you experienced walking through a casino, seeing a guy at a table, and saying to yourself, "that guy is counting" without seeing him play a single hand?

A lot of that is coincidental/circumstantial. If there have been 50 times that a player at my table has hit his soft 18 against a 10 (unusual), then raised his bet when the count happened to hit around +2 true (coincidental), then stood on 16 vs. 10 (unusual), then lowered his bet after the count dropped (coincidental), I would begin to suspect he was a card counter. But probably 49 of those times somewhere later in the shoe, he'd either insure a 20 for the full amount at an improper count (normal), double an A/2 vs. 3 (normal), stand with 9/9 vs. 8 (normal), double 4/4 vs. 4 (common), go to two hands right after the dealer beat his 10/10 with a 10 up blackjack (typical), double for half with 11 vs. 10 (not that unusual), stand on 8/8 vs. Ace, etc, etc.

So much for my earlier suspicions!

 

[Automatic Monkey]

A lot of that is coincidental/circumstantial. If there have been 50 times that a player at my table has hit his soft 18 against a 10 (unusual), then raised his bet when the count happened to hit around +2 true (coincidental), then stood on 16 vs. 10 (unusual), then lowered his bet after the count dropped (coincidental), I would begin to suspect he was a card counter. But probably 49 of those times somewhere later in the shoe, he'd either insure a 20 for the full amount at an improper count (normal), double an A/2 vs. 3 (normal), stand with 9/9 vs. 8 (normal), double 4/4 vs. 4 (common), go to two hands right after the dealer beat his 10/10 with a 10 up blackjack (typical), double for half with 11 vs. 10 (not that unusual), stand on 8/8 vs. Ace, etc, etc.

So much for my earlier suspicions!

The funny thing is all those wrong plays you mention are relatively cheap cover plays!

 

[jimbiggs]

On the other hand, card counters are very easy to spot. Haven't you experienced walking through a casino, seeing a guy at a table, and saying to yourself, "that guy is counting" without seeing him play a single hand?

Funny you should say that. Last weekend I was checking out tables and there's a guy playing with about $300 in green and about $100 in red stacked up in front of him. He's betting $5 a hand. I had no idea what he had bought in for, but I recognized what he was doing without watching him play a single hand. I leaned over to my wife and told her, "Anytime you see a guy with a big stack of greens and he's only betting $5 a hand, you just have to know he has some tricks up his sleeve." I watched a little longer and sure enough - he was spreading $5 to $50.

 

[shadroch]

Funny you should say that. Last weekend I was checking out tables and there's a guy playing with about $300 in green and about $100 in red stacked up in front of him. He's betting $5 a hand. I had no idea what he had bought in for, but I recognized what he was doing without watching him play a single hand. I leaned over to my wife and told her, "Anytime you see a guy with a big stack of greens and he's only betting $5 a hand, you just have to know he has some tricks up his sleeve." I watched a little longer and sure enough - he was spreading $5 to $50.

To qualify that a bit, he could also be playing the side bets. i recently saw a guy hit two Royal Matchs in about 5 hands. He was betting $5 aon his hand and 5-10 on the RM. His two hits were for $10 each so he had a pretty nice stack on greens for a few minutes.

 

[Cardcounter]

If the pit boss is starring at you when talking on the phone get the heck out of there ASAP. That is scary and he was propably taking to survalince about your play.


For me to spot a counter I need to watch him for at least an hour to confirm.
I can have a suspicion in 4 or 5 hands but I won't know for sure for at least 40 minutes to an hour. I basis it on how many mistakes he makes in that time how costly those mistakes where and when he changed his bets.

 

[WRX]

If the pit boss is starring at you when talking on the phone get the heck out of there ASAP.

If you're the largest bettor in the casino, that's going to happen every time. So are you going to scurry off every time, as soon as you sense heat?

 

[TeamProfit]

If you're the largest bettor in the casino, that's going to happen every time. So are you going to scurry off every time, as soon as you sense heat?

I'm sure he left out some details, lol

 

[moo321]

Cellini says that the boss on the phone is typically not an indication of heat or a skill check. They'll usually leave the pit in order to not tip you off.