Proposed changes to PA Blackjack rules

[alwayssplitaces]

The casinos want 6-5 payout and H17, PA says no (for now)

I expect surrender will remain since ploppies don't use surrender properly. H17 may be allowed but I can't see them approving 6-5. If anyone here lives in Pennsylvania, write to your elected state reps saying that you support the rules as they are presently. Also write letters to the editor of your local newspaper. PA casinos are thriving so much more, since players are playing locally instead of going to Atlantic City. The tiny percentage of counters that regularly win in Pennsylvania are just a cost of doing business. Most PA casinos customers are locals, and if they feel like they win more often or lose less in PA than in AC, they'll keep coming back. I'm sure Harrah's would love to bring their poor AC rules (or even worse Vegas rules) to Chester, but they legally can't, so they actually have the best blackjack rules out of any Harrah's property in the US for now, even at $10. It pains me to see full 8D H17 6-5 tables at "party pits" in Vegas with ploppies betting over $100/hand sometimes. Next time I go to Vegas I want to hand out literature to the people about the drawbacks of 6-5. I never play them unless there's a promotion. I remember the sheer amount of 50 cent coins I collected on my last trip to Vegas, nearly $50 worth. I could imagine being shorted 5 times that if I played at 6-5 tables.

http://www.blackjackchamp.com/casino-news/8868-casino-dreams-of-changed-blackjack-rules-answered-by-pennsylvania-gcb/

Casino Dreams of Changed Blackjack Rules Answered by Pennsylvania GCB

Feb 20, 2011

Written by: Nick Meisher

Pennsylvania blackjack rules changes

A representative of the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board (PGCB) responds to rumors of casino proposed player-unfriendly modification of blackjack rules allegedly under consideration by PGCB.

BlackjackChamp.com, a respected blackjack industry news source, recently published an article regarding possible casino-backed changes of the fundamental rules of blackjack – Blackjack Gamblers Furious as Pennsylvania Eager to Gimp Game Odds. The article, based on sources within multiple casinos throughout the state, warned blackjack aficionados of the strong possibility of PGCB:

(A) Changing the payout for a natural Blackjack from 3-to-2 ($15 win for a $10 bet) to 6-to-5, ($12 win for a $10 bet).

(B) Permitting dealers to ‘Hit’ on Soft-17 (A-6).

Mr. Richard McGarvey, a spokesman for the PGCB, contacted this reporter, and after exchanging multiple emails, I will faithfully inform our readers about PGCB’s position on the above issues. On a side note, Mr. McGarvey answered all my questions, and took the time to explain the issues involved in a straight forward manner. That was very refreshing. It’s nice see that not all government spokesmen were previously employed in used car sales.

In a nutshell, Mr. McGarvery provided a clarification of the PA Gaming Control Board’s position on the two above issues. He stated that – “currently, there are no proposed changes to the Blackjack rules in Pennsylvania … the board plans to start the process of converting the temporary regulations to final regulation over the next several months. The final regulations for blackjack have yet to be proposed at this time … it is very possible that when the proposed final regulation for blackjack come out that the payout will be set a 3 to 2 and that dealers must stand on a soft 17.”

In addition, Mr. McGarvey noted that last year, PGCB rejected the player-unfriendly rules, which were proposed by the (casino) industry – “…when the board set the temporary regulations last year for blackjack at 3 to 2 and standing on soft 17 the industry requested that those be changed. At that time the Board rejected that request and stayed with the 3 to 2 blackjack payout and the standing on soft 17.”

BlackjackChamp.com will be monitoring this situation closely to ensure that casual blackjack players are not unfairly exploited by the changes in blackjack odds. The casino industry, with vast resources, leverage and lobbyists is already putting pressure on elected state officials for the change.

Even a small change in the fundamental blackjack odds in favor of the casino, will generate significantly higher profits, higher tax revenues for the state coffers; all at the expense of casual casino players. Readers should express their views regarding this important issue to their elected state representatives.

 

[Sharky]

Courtesy of BJ Insider..in an article by Mark Gruetze he urges players to contact the Assistant Chief Counsel, PA Gaming control board (email address below)

To join the campaign, send your comments to: Susan A. Yocum, Assistant Chief Counsel, Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board, P.O. Box 69060, Harrisburg, PA 17101-8323. E-mail: [email protected].


his article is very similar so I won't bother posting it, but can be found at BJIsider.com

 

[rrwoods]

****ing greedy bastards. They already have basically no tables at less than $25 on the weekends. I was in Parx and Sugar House and Sugar House was even raising all their tables to $50! On a damned Monday!

Whatever, I guess if they change to 6:5 it doesn't change much. I'll just have yet another reason not to be playing.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

****ing greedy bastards. They already have basically no tables at less than $25 on the weekends. I was in Parx and Sugar House and Sugar House was even raising all their tables to $50! On a damned Monday!

Whatever, I guess if they change to 6:5 it doesn't change much. I'll just have yet another reason not to be playing.

Try Harrah's Chester. They have plenty of $10 and $15 tables all day with the great Pennsylvania rules, which is rare for a Harrah's property. A lot of the dealers are new and make a lot of errors, and the pit boss always rules in the player's favor. I have yet to experience heat there. The pen is usually 1-1.5 decks cut out of 8 decks. The HL room has 6 deck shoes, but no midshoe entry so I can't back count that. It's a great way for me to get Harrah's points which are useful for free rooms in most gambling venues. Speaking of comps, there's also an electronic blackjack machine with the same great PA rules at a $5 minimum. It gives 1 RC for every $20 played through. I got over 200 RCs playing basic strategy on that machine for a few hours and didn't even lose my original $100 I was planning to lose on that machine. The poker room gives double the comp rate as any other Harrah's property, and I had the luck of playing there once when the bad beat jackpot hit (it was quads losing to higher quads), and every player playing at that time won something.

 

[FLASH1296]

I do not know what tax rate the casinos in Pennsylvania are paying to the commonwealth,
but that is always a major issue in just how paranoid and evil the casinos are. e.g.
Illinois has a casino tax rate approx. DOUBLE that of Nevada; ergo we will never see a good game in that IL.

 

[rrwoods]

Try Harrah's Chester. They have plenty of $10 and $15 tables all day with the great Pennsylvania rules, which is rare for a Harrah's property. A lot of the dealers are new and make a lot of errors, and the pit boss always rules in the player's favor. I have yet to experience heat there. The pen is usually 1-1.5 decks cut out of 8 decks. The HL room has 6 deck shoes, but no midshoe entry so I can't back count that. It's a great way for me to get Harrah's points which are useful for free rooms in most gambling venues. Speaking of comps, there's also an electronic blackjack machine with the same great PA rules at a $5 minimum. It gives 1 RC for every $20 played through. I got over 200 RCs playing basic strategy on that machine for a few hours and didn't even lose my original $100 I was planning to lose on that machine. The poker room gives double the comp rate as any other Harrah's property, and I had the luck of playing there once when the bad beat jackpot hit (it was quads losing to higher quads), and every player playing at that time won something.

Sounds like a dream come true... hopefully this 6:5 bullshit doesn't come through and screw it up.

 

[21forme]

It will, eventually, when the right politician is paid off.

 

[aslan]

****ing greedy bastards. They already have basically no tables at less than $25 on the weekends. I was in Parx and Sugar House and Sugar House was even raising all their tables to $50! On a damned Monday!

Whatever, I guess if they change to 6:5 it doesn't change much. I'll just have yet another reason not to be playing.

I suggest that PA residents write likewise for mandatory lower min tables ($5, $10, and $15) so that ordinary people can enjoy the game of blackjack without risking their life savings. The state should ensure that all its citizens can enjoy state-authorized and licensed gaming, not just the rich.

 

[aslan]

It will, eventually, when the right politician is paid off.

"G*" Party, arise! Make it known that you will vote the greedy politicians out of office.

* Gaming

 

[Automatic Monkey]

If anything changes, I believe it will be H17 because AC has proven you can get away with that. There's no reason to believe 6:5 will fly in PA any more than it did in AC.

Another thing they might try, just out of pig-headed ignorance, is getting rid of surrender. When the PA casinos opened they balked at offering it even though it was mandated by state law. The Mt. Airy website still insists their game offers "early surrender," demonstrating that they still don't know the difference and just how little they risk giving up to an ordinary player with their late surrender. I'm sure there are people in management there right now who are scared to death of their own blackjack tables because they think they have early surrender, and heard stories about what AP's can do with that rule.

 

[blackchipjim]

Paranoia runs deep!

The rule changes would spell the death of alot of Pa casinos. I don't know what the OH casinos have in store but it may mimic the Pa's rules. Competition is the name of the game in the casino industry and if the OH casinos have a no smoking rule it will seriously hinder the profits that they expect. Little changes in rules or conditions have far reaching effects to the casino's bottom line. With new casinos sprouting up in the near future the Pa casinos would be ill advised to mess with profit making operations already proven. It wouldn't be the first time nor the last that the casino industry has shot themselves in the foot.

 

[alwayssplitaces]

A lot of the PA casinos rely on locals that keep coming often. If they take their money faster, they'll stop coming. 6-5 would be like a 3% house edge to the average player that doesn't play BS. Right now it's like a 1.5% house edge for the ploppies who don't play straight BS.

 

[aslan]

If anything changes, I believe it will be H17 because AC has proven you can get away with that. There's no reason to believe 6:5 will fly in PA any more than it did in AC.

Another thing they might try, just out of pig-headed ignorance, is getting rid of surrender. When the PA casinos opened they balked at offering it even though it was mandated by state law. The Mt. Airy website still insists their game offers "early surrender," demonstrating that they still don't know the difference and just how little they risk giving up to an ordinary player with their late surrender. I'm sure there are people in management there right now who are scared to death of their own blackjack tables because they think they have early surrender, and heard stories about what AP's can do with that rule.

I think you're right.

You would think that casinos had consultants on retainer to study their offerings and advise them on the pros and cons of their current fare, and make suggestions to improve their bottom line. Is Zender the only guy around making a living on casino ignorance? If so, it seems they are so risk adverse dollar-wise, they won't even spend money to protect themselves, relying on the thoughts of "experts" on staff who in reality do not have a clue.

OTOH, I am surprised at how quickly they train dealers up to speed. I went by Hollywood in Charles Town yesterday and did a quick walk around their table games. I recognized one dealer who was lost in space when they first opened last year but now seemed quite up to the task, if not still slow as molasses. Maybe dealer training is down to a science in the industry, I don't know. There was not a glimmer of a hole card, and the shuffle was complex enough to stymie most if not all trackers. When they first opened, I remember a dealer who almost put his hole card in your face- so blatant, it was quickly discovered and corrected.

 

[ArcticInferno]

My understanding is that the 6:5 payout is only at tables with some “gimmick”.
Scantily clad dealers with pushup bras, pole dancing, etc.
Another rule change often seen along with 6:5 is, double on 9, 10, or 11 only.
Single decks are notorious for having the 6:5 payout, because the single deck status is a gimmick in and of itself.
Even if the law allows 6:5 payout, I doubt that the casinos can offer 6:5 on the general floor. Nobody would play.
Bad ideas, no matter how good they seem, inevitably fail.
Just look at i-Parx and the i-Tables. Need I say more?

 

[aslan]

My understanding is that the 6:5 payout is only at tables with some “gimmick”.
Scantily clad dealers with pushup bras, pole dancing, etc.
Another rule change often seen along with 6:5 is, double on 9, 10, or 11 only.
Single decks are notorious for having the 6:5 payout, because the single deck status is a gimmick in and of itself.
Even if the law allows 6:5 payout, I doubt that the casinos can offer 6:5 on the general floor. Nobody would play.
Bad ideas, no matter how good they seem, inevitably fail.
Just look at i-Parx and the i-Tables. Need I say more?

Have the i-tables been removed? When I was there, it was full.

 

[21forme]

Have the i-tables been removed? When I was there, it was full.

Yes, they are gone.

 

[aslan]

Yes, they are gone.

Great! I was upset when I heard the i-tables were counting the cards for counter detection purposes. Unfair!

But so is the software used by the eye-in-the-sky. In fact, so is the eye in the sky! If card counting is legal, then the only person who should be able to defend against it is the casino's representative in the game, the dealer. It amounts to the casino teaming up against the players to prevent them from using legal means to win.

I wish the gaming commissions would consider what I am saying. It's entirely up to the casino whether it offers a beatable game. If they do, they still should not be allowed the unfair advantage of using both non-playing personnel and computers to defeat those who try to beat it.

They should be allowed no more than what the players have at their disposal-- their brains, and limited to those who are playing. If they want to have other representatives in the game, fine by me.