Question for seasoned profitting Black Jack players (2 deck or 6 deck?)

[kcchiefsfan1982]

Do all you players that have lifetime winnings stick to 2 deck only, or do you play a good amount of 6 deck?

My local casino here in %#$^& only has 6 deck. So, no option except to travel 3 hours on the weekends to play 2 deck if I wanted.

Am I good with attempting to play a winning game on my local 6 deck?

$5,000 bank roll

1-10 spread at $10/min table,

+1 = $10
+2 = $25
+3 = $50
+4 = $100

double down, splits up to 4 times, cannot resplit aces. 3/2 blackjacks. I think...75% pen

 

[johndoe]

I rarely play double deck, I stick to shoes with a big spread. DD is watched much more closely, especially the games with good rules.

Seems like your game is beatable, especially with back counting. Make sure you have the pen correct though.

 

[kcchiefsfan1982]

I rarely play double deck, I stick to shoes with a big spread. DD is watched much more closely, especially the games with good rules.

Seems like your game is beatable, especially with back counting. Make sure you have the pen correct though.

Ok, thanks for the response!

 

[KewlJ]

Basically, I agree 100% with johndoe. Because I live and play Vegas, I could have a full rotation of decent double deck games. But most are counter traps and/or hawked too closely. So I have 3 or 4 DD games that I play. 3 mainly, but a couple others that are occasional plays. My number 1 rule is to stay away from any DD game at any kind of chain casinos, or casinos associated with other casinos, or casinos that participate (contribute) to databases. That way any 'problems" won't cost me multiple games and casinos. This leaves me with a small number and then I play the few that are a little more tolerant and less "hawkish".

6 deck games get a bad rap in my opinion. With decent rules, a decent spread (that is tolerated) and a little wonging out to avoid at least some of the negative counts, 6 deck is very beatable and for most, at a fraction of the heat and attention of playing DD.

 

[kcchiefsfan1982]

Thanks for the response, KewlJ.

Yeah, I started wonging out pretty fast.

I did learn the Illustrious 18 enough to know what to do in the negative counts...and use to go ahead and play through some of it...but I quit doing that...I just wong out. Always. Get a drink, go to the bathroom, or just color in.

I enjoy playing 6 deck. Glad it is still a beatable game! 15 minute drive for me.

 

[KewlJ]

There is a mis-conception about agressively exiting negative counts. Simulations and other data will show that a mildly negative count can turn to a positive count, positive EV situation. But is that the goal? Is the goal for my -1.5 TC to turn to a +2 TC? It isn't my goal. My goal is to get to my max bet count, which is TC +4 most games. THAT is where I make most of my money? And once the count starts heading negative, even only moderately negative, it rarely swings back all the way to a max bet count. And on those rare occasions that it does it only gets there for a round or two at the very end.

For my money, once the count hits -1.5 TC, I'll take my chances at a new game off the top, rather than play through all those crap hands maybe getting to a slightly +EV count. I am after Max Bet count and at that point my chances are better playing a new game off the top.

Now of course that is me and my situation. If that 'new game' is 30 minutes away, it doesn't work the same.

 

[kcchiefsfan1982]

There is a mis-conception about agressively exiting negative counts. Simulations and other data will show that a mildly negative count can turn to a positive count, positive EV situation. But is that the goal? Is the goal for my -1.5 TC to turn to a +2 TC? It isn't my goal. My goal is to get to my max bet count, which is TC +4 most games. THAT is where I make most of my money? And once the count starts heading negative, even only moderately negative, it rarely swings back all the way to a max bet count. And on those rare occasions that it does it only gets there for a round or two at the very end.

For my money, once the count hits -1.5 TC, I'll take my chances at a new game off the top, rather than play through all those crap hands maybe getting to a slightly +EV count. I am after Max Bet count and at that point my chances are better playing a new game off the top.

Now of course that is me and my situation. If that 'new game' is 30 minutes away, it doesn't work the same.

The makes sense. I will attempt to do the same.

 

[johndoe]

I've also had experiences with preferential shuffling on DD games, where it seemed uncanny that they would have dealer changes during high counts, requiring a shuffle. This was Vegas many years ago, but probably still happens, and there's little you can do about it (except leave).

 

[kcchiefsfan1982]

Really...I think...I am just going to try something very extreme. Just go and watch games...and only get in once it gets +2.

That might mean some times I drive 15 minutes to Casino after work....watch 5 games...and it never gets there and I just go home and not even play.

I want to go that extreme, just see what happens!!!

Or I may even only get in at +3 or +4....trying to decide.

Only play a few hands a night if that is how it goes.

 

[johndoe]

I would jump in at +1, maybe +2, but you'll already be waiting for a very long time. Going any higher would be pretty absurd and you're giving up advantageous situations.

 

[ZenPrince]

With double-deck games especially, I would say you have to know your venues, their tolerances, and what you can get away with. For instance, I've won 80k playing just double deck at Red Rock in Vegas over a 4-year period and am still allowed to play there with full comps (yes, playing rated). A general rule that DD games are counter traps is just not true.

 

[KewlJ]

With double-deck games especially, I would say you have to know your venues, their tolerances, and what you can get away with. For instance, I've won 80k playing just double deck at Red Rock in Vegas over a 4-year period and am still allowed to play there with full comps (yes, playing rated). A general rule that DD games are counter traps is just not true.

I am glad it has worked for you. But most of us that play Vegas regularly have concluded that in most cases DD is higher risk and if your goal is any kind of longevity, too high a risk.

 

[ZenPrince]

I am glad it has worked for you. But most of us that play Vegas regularly have concluded that in most cases DD is higher risk and if your goal is any kind of longevity, too high a risk.

Longevity is important to me and I seem to enjoy grinding more than most full-time pros. I've been playing full-time for five years and don't like to travel beyond a five-state region (that includes Nevada). I've totalled 4,000 hours and $600k in winnings during this time. I'll admit I do play a lot of three-, four-, and six-deck games as well. By the way, I've tried to hook up for lunch with you through a third party. I'll bet we would recognize each other, lol.

 

[kcchiefsfan1982]

I am really considering raising my bets to the following:

-1,0,+1 = $10
+2 = $50
+3 = $100
+4 = $200

 

[johndoe]

I would encourage that. Your bankroll is a little shy but if it's replenishable, it's fine.

 

[DSchles]

I am really considering raising my bets to the following:

-1,0,+1 = $10
+2 = $50
+3 = $100
+4 = $200

$10 to $50 is an awfully big jump. Not so easy to get away with. What are the rules? Maybe $25 at +1.

Don

 

[kcchiefsfan1982]

$10 to $50 is an awfully big jump. Not so easy to get away with. What are the rules? Maybe $25 at +1.

Don

Ok, I may do $40.

I do it by using a green chip with 3 reds stacked on top...not so noticeable since green chip is covered.

Maybe I should stick to $10, $40, $75, $125

 

[kcchiefsfan1982]

Here are my very early results.

I just started the new bet spread 2 sessions so though, so going to be bigger swings. Still waiting on my first big upswing.

I have had some great max bet double down hands, only to lose them!!

 

[DSchles]

What does the -$170 refer to?

Don

 

[gronbog]

Your notes are all about individual hands and hot/cold sessions. This is all completely useless information. You should be taking notes on things like penetration, game speed, crowding, bet spread, heat (or lack thereof), etc. Things that define the value of the game in the long run. You should also be tracking dealers who provide better than average conditions and pit personnel who are more/less tolerant than others.

You want to be able to look at your notes to help you decide where and when to play most effectively, not whether your luck was good or bad.