Question on Professional Blackjack

[countmein]

So I've been reading Stanford Wong's book. There are tons of charts and statistics. Now I realize that there are many, many deviations, and I suppose I do not need to memorize all of them. In addition, all of the statistics across counting boards such as these can be confusing for beginning counters. I don't know if I need to be concerned about all of this. Perhaps it is overkill at this juncture.

Here is my plan - let me know your opinions:

1) Master basic strategy for H17 and S17, DAS, 6 Deck, No surrender. Since this is what I will be playing 99% of the time, focus should be here.

2) Master perfect running count, with perfect basic strategy (This is where I am at)

3) Master perfect true count, with perfect basic strategy.

4) Master the most important deviations (suggestions?)

5) Betting strategy

I'm not sure if I need to spend a significant portion of my time reading books about professional blackjack and counting as part of my own boot camp, or if I should forgo this (at least for the time being) and focus 100% of my time on practice by doing.

I have 2 key pieces of software that I am using. I am using Blackjack Mentor on the iPhone (for perfect basic strategy drills) and CVCX for counting.

I have been "playing" blackjack for many years, but have stopped "gambling" about 2 years ago, knowing that I want to become an advantage player. I've been trying to make training a part of my everyday life, even if it is only 30 minutes.

A few more questions for anyone who would like to chime in:

1) As an advantage player, do you "warm up" with basic strategy/simulation games before going to the tables? I would imagine the answer is YES regardless of experience. Just like warming up before a football game or martial arts tournament...

2) Given there is an enormous amount of knowledge and resources out there, what do you feel are the most practical and efficient resources to use?

3) Other than what I have already stated, what would you advise?

Thanks in advance and I appreciate all of your feedback.

Count

 

[kewljason]

First of all, congratulations on your decision to learn to play with an advantage, countmein. It is also good that you have formulated some sort of plan and aren't just jumping in head over heals as many of the new posters seem to want to do. Wong's book is as good a place to start as any. (subjective) A couple comments about your plan:

Learning Basic Strategy is definately step one as you have determined. Learn the basic strategy for the game(s) you will be playing most frequently.

I am a little confused about your #2 and #3. I don't know why you need to master a running count and then true count. You need to master the true count and learning the running count is a part of that, but I would start converting right away. Maybe you are thinking along the lines of walk before you run, but I don't really see that. (I am sure others will disagree with me) The objective here is to learn the true count, so I would start out that way. Keep the running count, convert to true count as you practice each hand.

I would also flip your number 4 and 5. Once you can count and have a betting strategy, you can flip the advantage from casino to you, even prior to learning any play deviations, but you can't flip the advantage for the games you are describing without betting variation, so I would learn that first. You can then learn the important play variations and even add to them if you desire as you go.

As for your plan to forgo reading books, I would rethink that. Read and learn as much as you can from a number of top books out there, as well as this site and maybe a couple others. Many of the good folks here are quite willing to share their experiences, suggestions and recomendations with you. The more you can learn the better. Sometimes it just seems like a lot Stats and charts and numbers, but then all of the sudden things start to fall in to place like the peices of a puzzle and it all begins to make sense. Especially the key themes which you will see repeated over and over again in the good sources of info.

You have already started with one of my favorite three books, so I will just suggest the other two. Blackjack Attack by Schlesinger and Modern Blackjack by Norm Wattenberger, which can be read online at Qfit.com.
Others will chime in with their favorite sources as well I am sure. Good luck.

 

[21forme]

IMO, Wong's book is not very well written. It's a good reference, but not a great primer/textbook.

I recommend Knockout Blackjack, which is a book about the KO system. It's an unbalanced count, so you don't have to learn true counting, and is about equal to HiLo in performance. It's well written and a great beginner's book and tutorial. Another good book is Arnold Snyder's Blackbelt in Blackjack.

 

[creeping panther]

Count

So I've been reading Stanford Wong's book. There are tons of charts and statistics. Now I realize that there are many, many deviations, and I suppose I do not need to memorize all of them. In addition, all of the statistics across counting boards such as these can be confusing for beginning counters. I don't know if I need to be concerned about all of this. Perhaps it is overkill at this juncture.

Here is my plan - let me know your opinions:

1) Master basic strategy for H17 and S17, DAS, 6 Deck, No surrender. Since this is what I will be playing 99% of the time, focus should be here.

2) Master perfect running count, with perfect basic strategy (This is where I am at)

3) Master perfect true count, with perfect basic strategy.

4) Master the most important deviations (suggestions?)

5) Betting strategy

I'm not sure if I need to spend a significant portion of my time reading books about professional blackjack and counting as part of my own boot camp, or if I should forgo this (at least for the time being) and focus 100% of my time on practice by doing.

I have 2 key pieces of software that I am using. I am using Blackjack Mentor on the iPhone (for perfect basic strategy drills) and CVCX for counting.

I have been "playing" blackjack for many years, but have stopped "gambling" about 2 years ago, knowing that I want to become an advantage player. I've been trying to make training a part of my everyday life, even if it is only 30 minutes.

A few more questions for anyone who would like to chime in:

1) As an advantage player, do you "warm up" with basic strategy/simulation games before going to the tables? I would imagine the answer is YES regardless of experience. Just like warming up before a football game or martial arts tournament...

2) Given there is an enormous amount of knowledge and resources out there, what do you feel are the most practical and efficient resources to use?

3) Other than what I have already stated, what would you advise?

Thanks in advance and I appreciate all of your feedback.

Count

I also congratulate and welcome you into the society of AP's. You are ready to embark on a most challenging sojurn, that has crushed many before you.

Running count and true count go hand in hand, so do them together. Learn all the indices you can, they will come in very handy. Add Snyder to the books you will digest and visit the Wizard Of Odds often. Learn about shuffle tracking asap.

Remember that you are not a magician and cards do not appear in the way you expect them, at least not all the time and not always in front of you.

Do not succumb to the lure of trash games, be disciplined as a Warrior, and yes, always practice before entering the Gladiators Arena.

In my 15 years of AP play I still take nothing for granted, I always study before play and put my head and body in a different place, zoning, before I decide to play the game with bad intentions. Never underestimate the psychology of the game, what you do to yourself, what the casino wants to do to you, and what others at the table will try to do to you.

I also suggest you read the books by my friend Kevin Blackwood, as well as Josh Axelrad, Barry Meadows and Ian Anderson for a first hand realistic look at where the game can and will take you.

Regards,
CP

 

[kewljason]

IMO, Wong's book is not very well written. It's a good reference, but not a great primer/textbook.

I recommend Knockout Blackjack, which is a book about the KO system. It's an unbalanced count, so you don't have to learn true counting, and is about equal to HiLo in performance. It's well written and a great beginner's book and tutorial. Another good book is Arnold Snyder's Blackbelt in Blackjack.

Except....that the poster already expressed a desire to learn the balanced hi-lo. (probably the most used system with the most amount of info) I didn't steer him towards that. That was his desire. So why would you steer him away from that to learn an unbalanced system that 'is about equal in performance'. He also expressed wanting to use his Iphone app to practice counting, which last time I checked did not include KO. I do not use this app, so it may have been updated since then.

 

[kewljason]

I also congratulate and welcome you into the society of AP's. You are ready to embark on a most challenging sojurn, that has crushed many before you.

Running count and true count go hand in hand, so do them together. Learn all the indices you can, they will come in very handy. Add Snyder to the books you will digest and visit the Wizard Of Odds often. Learn about shuffle tracking asap.

Remember that you are not a magician and cards do not appear in the way you expect them, at least not all the time and not always in front of you.

Do not succumb to the lure of trash games, be disciplined as a Warrior, and yes, always practice before entering the Gladiators Arena.

In my 15 years of AP play I still take nothing for granted, I always study before play and put my head and body in a different place, zoning, before I decide to play the game with bad intentions. Never underestimate the psychology of the game, what you do to yourself, what the casino wants to do to you, and what others at the table will try to do to you.

I also suggest you read the books by my friend Kevin Blackwood, as well as Josh Axelrad, Barry Meadows and Ian Anderson for a first hand realistic look at where the game can and will take you.

Regards,
CP

comments: "learn about shuffle tracking ASAP". That really is learning to run before you walk CP! he is just now mastering basic strategy.

"do not succomb to the lure of trash games". :laugh: Surprised it was that far down on your list CP. (No malice intended...just humor)

If everyone who you offered that peice of advise took, it, we would all be flocking to your neck of the woods. Hope ya have some extra beds to put us all up. I know you think these games trash, but the fact is they are commonplace for most of us in most places (and spreading). I sincerely hope for your sake they don't find there way to you, but I fear at some point they will.

 

[countmein]

Thank you all for your feedback. I do not take it lightly.

Last week at the Venetian, I was practicing keeping the true count (while not playing). It is surely different in a casino environment than on a computer. I think I did well, but I felt as though eyes were watching me keep count, even though I was not playing. Not sure if this paranoia, but it was a good experience.

I wished I was playing, but I know my game is not ready yet. More discipline and sacrifice is needed before battle. My goal is to be in a position to put my training to the test this summer. I am always a student first - ready to learn and apply my training and learn by doing.

I've also started to read Blackjack Attack. So far, it is captivating me more than Professional Blackjack. I am looking to develop a regimented training schedule that I can continue to implement over and over. I understand that practice does not make perfect. Not remotely. Perfect practice makes perfect, so I have a lots of work ahead of me.

Thanks!

 

[rukus]

Perfect practice makes perfect, so I have a lots of work ahead of me.
Thanks!

now this is the work ethic people on this board need! i like it.
professional blackjack and blackbelt in blackjack (even though it is not the count you want) will give you the fundamentals to learn about playing the game properly along for good tips on training yourself. people here will say counting down a deck in 30 seconds is enough - no way - get down to 15-20 seconds so that you dont have to look at the cards very often and can be free to talk to patrons/dealers/pit as needed. once you are done with those, blackjack attack will give you the tools to determine what to expect from your playing style (expected value, standard deviation, risk of ruin, choosing games, etc).

as for deviations (we call them indices as well) - i recommend more than the I18 you will read about. get up to 50ish if you can. i only suggest this because you seem hungry to prepare as much as you can. why stop at 18 deviations when 40 more will only take a bit more training?

those three books are solid foundation. while going through those, pick up CVCX and/or CVData to really get a good handle on your betting, expectations, ROR, etc through computer simulations.

once you know those and can confidently keep the count, start off slow at the casinos. flat bet for a shoe to get your bearings. no matter what the stakes, the first time you push your max bet out your heart will be pumping! then just wait till you have to double down on it :devil:

 

[rrwoods]

You seem to have an understanding as to how difficult this game really can be, which is good! You know you must practice, and you also have a grasp on the math.

If you currently have a good grasp on basic, and a decent grasp on counting, I highly recommend playing once or twice at a casino with this knowledge before you start "really" counting. Flat-bet for your first trip, or make small variations just for camouflage. You want to be able to play flawless basic and keep a count, while maintaining a positive image at the table.

Table image is just as important as the math. If you can't play, you can't win!

As for your question on the most important deviations, the Illustrious 18 is what you're after. Again, camouflage is important here, so you'll have to work on your act, especially if you're known to be someone who plays flawless basic. Two of the indices involve splitting tens -- you may want to ignore those -- just for a little while -- even though they are mathematically important.

 

[Jack_of_Tirades]

Kudos, you want to master knowing when you have the advantage--that's good, but the first thing you need to master is accepting that you're going to suck until you don't suck anymore. I mean really, really accept it--b/c the road to becoming a broke a$$ is paved w/ self-delusion.

The process of going from sucky, to less sucky, to fine-tuning, can cost you a lot of bank--if you're reckless. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing and most of us have a degree of inner cockiness when it comes to this game--ergo advantage players.

In the beginning, it's easy to be caught up in the hype surrounding your newfound abilities. When you're green, you're never as good as you think you are. If you find yourself in situations where you're often keeping a fuzzy count then you're not ready. Clear the fuzz filter and play clean. Bad habits are hard to break and in this game cost you.

All sim practicing still requires that you validate your training at a casino. Consequently, your initial real-time attempts at counting (as others have posted) should be considered practice. Just don't let those practice sessions cost too much. Perhaps, the true savants can master counting under casino conditions w/ out having to go through a progressive journey to efficacy. For the rest of us, it is a learning process. Having the persistence to succeed in the long run implies not being a fiscal retard when you're green. You'll sleep better at night and will insure that you live to fight another day.