quiting playing Video Poker

[peaegg]

I am a serious BJ AP player. But this thread is not about my BJ play, but related to. I don't want to post it to the other game forum because I want to hear the opinions of other BJ AP players. Mods could move it if you see fit.

In the spring, I stated that I will quit VP after I hit a royal. Guess what, I hit 4 of them since then. It was a very lucky streak that I had, within less than 100 hours of play together. Those royals significantly pumped up my bankroll. I enjoy that but it comes to a point to rethink about quitting the VP. This is where I need your opinions.

Here are a few of reasons that I want to quit VP.
1. I MUST pay tax for my jackpots. (no debate about if I have to pay tax on BJ gains pls)
2. The house has an edge, if not considering the comps.
3. I found myself have no control about amount that I could spend. My appetite has gone significantly higher for larger denominate games, from anywhere $2 to $25 dollar machines.
4. I don't like the large variance, of course the negative ones. In a trip, I could loss 5k or more.
5. It probably takes away my valuable time from BJ games.

I found myself drew to the VP machines especially after a loss at the blackjack table, hoping for a changing of luck.

Has anyone share the same situation? If anyone has a strategy to deal with my issues, I will would love to hear from you.

Peaegg

 

[sabre]

Do the bankroll calculations for vp. There's no way a typical vp loss should be greater than a typical bj loss.

 

[fubster]

Has anyone share the same situation? If anyone has a strategy to deal with my issues, I will would love to hear from you.

888-ADMIT-IT? Serious advice.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Stay away from it. Some very good BJ AP's have the same problem. Because it is high speed, mentally taxing and you can push yourself to your mental limits by playing faster (unlike slots), VP is like crack to an intelligent person. Because of the sky-high variance VP can suck for a very long time and even if you have a profitable opportunity with it, it can kill your BR. This I know because I have a +EV opportunity for it and I still always have to remind myself to count my hands and not get hypnotized by it.

Treat your royals like the casino's balls in a jar on your desk, and move on to something else.

 

[peaegg]

Do the bankroll calculations for vp. There's no way a typical vp loss should be greater than a typical bj loss.

My bankroll is in mid five figures. That's for both my games. I don't play anything else. My losses on VP gone larger than my bankroll could afford. That's the major reason why I want to quit VP and focus on bj.

 

[peaegg]

Auto monkey, thanks. Your advice is what I need to hear. I knew it is a bad habit. This discussion will reinforce my decision of quitting. The last that I want to be is an out of control gambler.
I will use your trick to count the number of hands, if I have an opportunity to cash out some slot dollars.

 

[Thunder]

I agree with others who say VP can be like crack. Because of the huge variance, you can often be there playing for hours just praying to get 4 of a kind or better so you can get back to even. In all that time you could have been playing BJ which hopefully would be +EV for you and nowhere near as dangerous to your bankroll. When I play VP, I do so for 1/40 of what I do for BJ. When you feel the urge to increase your bets, that should be a big red sign/siren for you no matter what game you're playing, to quit that game for at least for a while. The fact that that you have won a few royals is now making you subconsciously think you're going to win one again and that's the real danger.

 

[kewljason]

I agree with others who say VP can be like crack. Because of the huge variance, you can often be there playing for hours just praying to get 4 of a kind or better so you can get back to even. In all that time you could have been playing BJ which hopefully would be +EV for you and nowhere near as dangerous to your bankroll. When I play VP, I do so for 1/40 of what I do for BJ. When you feel the urge to increase your bets, that should be a big red sign/siren for you no matter what game you're playing, to quit that game for at least for a while. The fact that that you have won a few royals is now making you subconsciously think you're going to win one again and that's the real danger.

So you and Auto Monk are saying VP is more addictive than other forms of gambling? I am not arguing that point, just trying to understand. I personally have never had much interest or felt the slightest addictive pull to play a negative expected value game. I did have a period of video poker play for about 9 months, but it was carefully calulated as to my goals and benefits vs the exected loss for a certain amount of play and when the time came I immediately ceased playing as the benefit no longer outweighed the risk for me. Of course as a result of that period of play, I still have 1 casino that gives me monthly cashback slot bonus that must be played through a machine. I figure out the number of hands I need to play through the cashback and count as I am playing and immediately cashout upon reaching that number.

So what is it that makes VP more addictive in your guys minds? The speed of the play?

 

[Sucker]

I am not arguing that point, just trying to understand.

The fact that you don't understand is a good indicator of your personal character. I've attended a couple of GA meetings just out of curiosity. One recurring point that these gamblers kept making was the lamentation that "anyone who's NOT a compulsive gambler will NEVER have the ability to understand our problem".

BTW, video poker was the game of choice for probably 98% of the people who were there. This makes me tend to agree with those who say that VP is often more addictive than other forms of gambling. Also; I seem to remember reading an article somewhere in which they mentioned that studies have been done whereby the results indicated that VP was the most addictive of all gambling games.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

I sometimes play a particular video poker game under certain circumstances. Luckily, it's generally a one-hand situation and I don't have to continue playing after that point. VP is extremely addictive to people that may be predisposed to addictive behavior, but I could never see myself becoming addicted to any gambling game—too repetitive and, eventually, boring. I guess the high speed and constant fluctuations of VP make it almost like a video game to some people, which can certainly be addictive.

 

[sagefr0g]

a not so sweet escape

So you and Auto Monk are saying VP is more addictive than other forms of gambling? I am not arguing that point, just trying to understand. I personally have never had much interest or felt the slightest addictive pull to play a negative expected value game. I did have a period of video poker play for about 9 months, but it was carefully calulated as to my goals and benefits vs the exected loss for a certain amount of play and when the time came I immediately ceased playing as the benefit no longer outweighed the risk for me. Of course as a result of that period of play, I still have 1 casino that gives me monthly cashback slot bonus that must be played through a machine. I figure out the number of hands I need to play through the cashback and count as I am playing and immediately cashout upon reaching that number.

So what is it that makes VP more addictive in your guys minds? The speed of the play?

right vp can have it's value and that is fine, imho.
how is it addictive or seductive, kind of thing?
well, even though it can be boring as hell to play, it is a way to kill time or structure time and time is something that AP's who don't only have blackjack as a venue tend to have, errh ie. a lot of time on their hands, sorta thing waiting for lucrative plays.
lol, long way of saying vp can be a time killer in an environment that can be down right irritating.
then it has the variance, usually bad variance but sometimes sweet, so it can become a form of non-AP gambling, sorta thing, hoping for sweet variance. even if you are say using VP for a valid plus EV action, enough bad variance can lead one's mind to the hope of achieving some good variance to make up for it, so one may be tempted to play on, sorta thing.
one has in one's mind the knowledge that in the long run, vp is with comps and the royal pretty much break even so it is not so much a stretch for one to 'justify' playing more and more vp, sorta thing. the problem of course being that royals can miss those 'cycles' of 40,000 hands a bunch of times, sorta thing, with the prospects of one's bankroll taking a horrific hit.
but playing vp does seem to be an escape from the irritation factor that can if allowed become a negative aspect of advantage play. this same aspect can be true for table blackjack play, ie. playing bj to escape irritation of the waiting for advantage plays rather than dealing with the wait for advantage sorta thing.
it's far as i see it one of the main phantoms that AP's have to deal with, the irritation factor. just as illuminated by the poet Keats:
- I mean Negative Capability, that is when man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts without any irritable reaching after fact & reason -
so that's pretty much the danger of vp, far as i can see.

 

[Thunder]

Kewl, I personally don't play VP for fun. I only do so when I get slot dollars to use as I know for me it's a negative EV game and pretty boring. I'm just saying that the potential for addiction is definitely there. Whether you realize it or not, you probably have the potential to be addicted to something. It could be video games, it could be books by a certain author, it could be chocolate, who knows.

What makes VP potentially addicting is the availability of that continuous stimulation. You press a button and voila you're dealt another hand. After a while it almost becomes a reflex. It's very dangerous because you could be down a lot and continue pressing the button, thinking the ploppy thought of "you're bound to have a big hand soon"

It's sort of like when you're getting killed in BJ and you start thinking you're bound to have a good shoe or get BJ soon. The reason why VP is more addicting is you don't have to wait for shuffles and other distractions to pass. You go as fast as you want to.

You're more likely to become addicted when you are tired because naturally your senses aren't as sharp and therefore your inhibitions are lower. That is why you shouldn't gamble when you're tired.

Here are the 3 most addicting casino games in my opinion from most to least addicting.

1. Slot Machines
2. 100/50 hand video poker
3. Video Poker
4. Blackjack


You can also read http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2009/09/06/Some-say-slots-gambling-most-addictive/stories/200909060200

 

[Automatic Monkey]

...So what is it that makes VP more addictive in your guys minds? The speed of the play?

That, plus you are using your brain. An intelligent person craves mental stimulation (crossword puzzles, chess, video gaming of all kinds) and when you are locked in playing 1000 hands per hour on a VP game it is like being on a flight simulator. No ploppies keeping you down on the ground. Thus it's very easy, when you are giving them play to keep the free-play coming, to turn your 5-10% advantage with the coupons into something else because you forget to take yourself out of the "cockpit."

Just to prove this theory, and to decouple it from the money aspect, I tried playing a Game King simulator for free at home, and sure thing, I get locked in, lose track of time and have no idea how many hands I've played. I used to do the same thing in the college student center with the video games back in the 80's- a pocket full of quarters and a missed class later I would give the Asteroids and Space Invaders a break and walk away literally not sure what day it was. That would never happen with a slot machine.

 

[blackjack avenger]

Variance, Variance and more Variance

Probably the most addictive aspect of many machines is the high and variable payouts. I think there are animal studies that show that variable payouts are more addictive then fixed payouts.

In most machines we have variable payouts
In bj we have a fairly fixed payout

Ever feel your pulse quicken during a big multi spl and dbl hand in bj? That is excitement over variance.

I am also not a big fan of vp, but if you know what you are doing and have a good opportunity it's an AP play like many others.

:joker::whip:

 

[Dipsy]

Isn't addiction going to help a game with +EV? Since you never get bored playing it, you may as well earn more money spending more time on those +EV VP machines.

 

[tensplitter]

I'm addicted to blackjack and I count cards so I will make money doing it.

 

[peaegg]

I will quit playing VP. thanks all

Your participation in this thread made me further believe that I should quit VP. I will put a stop on it from now on. Hopefully this discussion also helps some fellow new comers when they face similar issues. They might also found Thurder's original thread back in the spring helpful.

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=17946

I will report back to you my experience of quitting VP. peaegg

 

[Billy C1]

Diligence is required

Finding "plus EV" video poker games is no easy task but if (and when) you can, playing THEM ONLY is a "profitable addiction" which shouldn't be condemmed.
The only argument to that (in my case) is that a few good opportunities have cost me a night's sleep and thus become a health concern.

BillyC1

 

[MAZ]

I'm addicted to blackjack and I count cards so I will make money doing it.

Uh.........no.

 

[Machinist]

aaaahhhhh i love addicts

As an AP that has run a few teams in my days...i can whole heartedly say that addicts make the best VP players!!!! They work the cheapest....they are always broke...they will play at a moments notice...I dont have to worry about competition down the road from them...alot of them cried when we had to quit for the days play.....:laugh:.... Women are the most addicted to vp IMO.
Variance of vp is hell at times!!!! Addicts love the double double games......gotta hit them aces....or deuces wild ooooh lah lah...4 deuces bfdeal!!! but addicts love it!!!!
Run from the game buddy run:whip: you sound like you are on the edge of addiction....4 royals in less than 100 hrs?????imagine 100 hrs with out those royals ........or worse!!!
Run like the wind ...never look back... i fear it is to late for you though if you are asking for advice.....
More than likely you will have to have a healthy loss before you really try to quit....

Machinist