Quitting when Behind?

bluewhale · Apr 23, 2008

In light of the quitting while ahead strat that is often proposed I wanted to discuss this one which I don't see talked about often.

Okay so we know if you quit while behind you're gonna get many small losing sessions and the giant wins. Now lets talk cost benefit. The costs are obvious... less hours played and you're sessions become less in your control.

But the pros.... if you book a lot of losses isn't this is a good way to alleviate heat? Also comps might improve?

Notes:
if you win very early obviously keep playing rather than go home in 30 min.
Here i'm mainly talking about trying to bank a loss during the last half hour of play OR if you accumulate some kind of giant loss to stop playing and bank it with the casino instead of trying to win back.

i'm yet to test this out but i plan to in the near future... anyone got any field experience?

EasyRhino · Apr 23, 2008

Well, the place that just barred me definitely won more of my money that I won of its.

You know, even if you're not tracking your chips exactly, you kind of get a rough idea of how much you have. I've occasionally, had a decent win going, and worked it down to around even, which turns out to be an apparent loss due to ratholing.

You're trying to do a brick and mortar version of a super-aggro online bonus whoring technique, aren't you? Lots of losses make you look like a stud, followed by a crushing win.

I think it might work if you had easy availability of the casino (otherwise transport costs would get ugly). And, for whatever reason, you wanted to play the same shift. Maybe even the same dealer/floor. You'd just be "that guy" who comes in each day, blows a couple of grand, then leaves. You'd look like the typical underbanked gambler. And maybe a drug dealer. And then eventually you'd just clobber them with the win.

However.... my gut reaction is that a bunch of small wins are going to attract less attention then one big clobberin'. In fact, a clobberin' big enough might automtically garner extra attention.

Then again, I heard through the grapevine that at one of the other places that backed me off, that the dealers said I was "so lucky" because I seemed to leave each session a winner.

So obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm drunk.

Automatic Monkey · Apr 23, 2008

EasyRhino said:

In vino, veritas.

It seems understood among counters that they like to back us off when down. Maybe they do it to demoralize us, or maybe they are using ploppy math and believe they can beat counters as a whole that way.

So when I've started out up, way up, I'll increase my spread! Let them keep hoping, I'll keep raking.

EasyRhino · Apr 24, 2008

Wait, it's possible to start out a session way up?

I don't get it.

Chapel · Apr 24, 2008

If the count is negative, Wonging out isn't a bad idea. But I stick by what I said Stanford Wong said about the quitting while ahead: "Don't sit down and play to a certain win/loss, sit down and play for a certain amount of time."

SD Padres · Apr 24, 2008

For 6 and 8 deck games I try to wong in and out as much as possible. However for 2 deck games I quit when I either win or lose 40 units or have played for 1 hour. This has worked for me over the years.

charlieflip · Apr 24, 2008

A thought about wonging though, doesnt it seem suspicous when wonging in a casino? I mean, do you sit and join and leave the game all the time? Or do you leave, backcount, and then join in again. I haven't played live yet so Im just asking for experiences.

bluewhale · Apr 24, 2008

Chapel said:

please don't comment in my thread cause you clearly don't know anything.

i got the idea i'm referring to from here:
http://www.bj21.com/bj_reference/pages/commonmistakes.shtml

EasyRhino · Apr 24, 2008

bluewhale said:

Gee Ward, that was pretty harsh on the Beaver.

Besides, the very important caveat of Ian Anderson's idea is that you've played 45 minutes to an hour. And he's pretty religious about keeping the sessions short.

Leaving when behind after, say, 10 minutes would be kind of silly.

sagefr0g · Apr 24, 2008

bluewhale said:

good article whale. real lesson for me. not long ago i played (i kid you not) 21 straight hours (no sleep, no food) in the vain attempt to at least break even.
live & learn lol.

InPlay · Apr 24, 2008

EasyRhino said:

It's possible to start a session down.

Sonny · Apr 24, 2008

EasyRhino said:

It's simple. Just walk into any casino, look at their crappy games and walk away. The next time you play a session you will be way ahead of where you would have been.

-Sonny-

Chapel · Apr 25, 2008

bluewhale said:

Woah! You mentioned the other thread and I said what I read in a book by a respected author which, I thought, related to both topics. Sorry I didn't possess the psychic powers to determine what your inspiration was.

That article brings up some good points such as getting tired and making mistakes in betting, cover and counting which would turn a player edge into a house edge.

ihate17 · Apr 25, 2008

what loses can do to common sense

sagefr0g said:

I have seen and heard of plenty of counters who when they have a decent session keep it to an hour or less and then move on to another casino. A few of these same players though will play marathon sessions at the same casino when they are behind. That determination really makes no sense. First off, it is emotional and often cover is dropped and you land up posting on this board that you got backed off while losing. Secondly, your chance of getting your money back at another casino should be just as good as it is in your present casino.

ihate17

golfnut101 · Apr 25, 2008

Yes, but with an act. Bathroom break..."oh, ****, I gotta take this call"...look timid as I hesitantly tell my wife "may as well try now"...its called practice, and lots of it.

Kasi · Apr 25, 2008

Chapel said:

I admit I don't know hardly anything practical but I really like the idea of limiting sessions to an hour or so, as you suggest, or leaving if 1 hour session bankroll is lost before then or leaving if session bankroll doubled before then. Or even leaving when a max bet is won.

I think that worked pretty well for Blackwood and Anderson. And Don too.

I can't imagine a team giving each player enough roll for an 8 hour session.

Would one rather play 20 hours in a row once a month at one casino or play 1 hour a month at 20 different casinos?

zengrifter · Apr 25, 2008

ihate17 said:

Its more efficent to play through the losing streak - get it all played out, taking the huge dump in one spot saves time and time is money. zg

Chapel · Apr 25, 2008

Kasi said:

I admit I don't know hardly anything practical but I really like the idea of limiting sessions to an hour or so, as you suggest, or leaving if 1 hour session bankroll is lost before then or leaving if session bankroll doubled before then. Or even leaving when a max bet is won.

I think that worked pretty well for Blackwood and Anderson. And Don too.

I can't imagine a team giving each player enough roll for an 8 hour session.

Would one rather play 20 hours in a row once a month at one casino or play 1 hour a month at 20 different casinos?

I can't take credit for suggesting that, only quoting it. :grin:

bluewhale · Apr 25, 2008

ihate17 said:

just clarifying... i'm not talking about trying to keep playing a marathon session till you post a loss. I'm talking about capping sessions at a predtermined time. lets say 1-2 hours. then once the one hour mark hits you keep playing till the two hour mark until you post a loss. if you happen to be -ve at 1 hr u leave then obviously.

these numbers could be adjusted to 0.5-1 hrs or 0.5-1.5 hrs or whatever you like.

blackchipjim · Apr 25, 2008

capping the tap out

I have had some pretty big deviations in my bankroll in any one session. Lose in the morning and win it back in the afternoon, just to lose it again at night. I have a time limit I like to keep to win or losing session. I have been getting better in discipline about the time carefull not to go over too much. My time limts are about an hour or so but, I do it more as not to get made out as a counter than limt my wins or losses. blackhipjim

Quitting when Behind?

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