I just reviewed some of my win/loss statements for 2008 and a few of them concern me as having large numbers on the plus side. The "problem" spots are houses where I usually play in the high roller pits because of the poor games on the main floor. It's mostly black chip play and frequently heads up. Any words of wisdom on how to deal with this?
Rat-holing chips
- Thread starter 21forme
- Start date
FLASH1296
Well-Known Member
Ratholing chips is a very poor idea. Do not do it.
The eye can see what you are doing even if you are a skilled magician.
Once you are known as someone who "goes south" with chips you draw suspicion upon yourself, as "gamblers" want everyone to see their big stacks.
Pit Critters may become annoyed by your making their jobs harder, and "punish" you by having surveillance run a "skills check" on you.
As a known "ratholer", in future sessions, when there are chips missing and unaccounted for from the dealer's rack they may be presumed to be in YOUR pockets, thus inflating the magnitude of your(recorded) win.
The eye can see what you are doing even if you are a skilled magician.
Once you are known as someone who "goes south" with chips you draw suspicion upon yourself, as "gamblers" want everyone to see their big stacks.
Pit Critters may become annoyed by your making their jobs harder, and "punish" you by having surveillance run a "skills check" on you.
As a known "ratholer", in future sessions, when there are chips missing and unaccounted for from the dealer's rack they may be presumed to be in YOUR pockets, thus inflating the magnitude of your(recorded) win.
SD Padres
Well-Known Member
I disagree. I would at a minimum try to rathole my hourly EV. There are several discreet ways to accomplish this.FLASH1296 said:
However, is you are playing a higher stakes game try to rathole green and not blacks.
As far as having "big stacks" of chips in front of you as the previous poster suggested that's bad advice as well. You don't want to draw unwanted attention to yourself.
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
I'd still advocate ratholing chips. First I'm not so sure it's readily detected (I need to see my win/losses I guess!) If you're truly paranoid, you might be able to figure out ways to do it "naturally" by taking breaks, breaking down chips for tips, having a wife, etc.
However, unless you're in the highest of high roller places, the black chips are probably tracked fairly carefully, so you're stuck with smaller denomination chips.
a HIGH denom chip (at black chip level, maybe $1k or $5k) could be blatantly stuffed into a pocket, that would just be a money management technique, but the pit would also probably correctly record it in your win/loss.
However, unless you're in the highest of high roller places, the black chips are probably tracked fairly carefully, so you're stuck with smaller denomination chips.
a HIGH denom chip (at black chip level, maybe $1k or $5k) could be blatantly stuffed into a pocket, that would just be a money management technique, but the pit would also probably correctly record it in your win/loss.
standard toaster
Well-Known Member
pshhh thats an easy one that most counters are sucesfull at....21forme said:
dont win
In the first place, I'd love to hear these horror stories of people refusing to pay a jackpot because another persons card was in the slot. You have no obligation to put any card in so the casino wouldn't begin to have a case not to pay you. The only possible exception would be something like Station Casinos Jumbo Jackpots that randomly award the card a jackpot. In those cases, the jackpot belongs to the card, not the machine.moo321 said:
In any event, that has absolutely nothing to do with blackjack winnings.
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
ratholes
I myself rathole but, at the proper time and under the right conditions. I wouldn't do it at my favorite place and not blacks because they are tracked out with larger denom chips. You said your win/loss statement was a cause for concern I assume on winnings and taxes. I heard losing lottery tickets can nullify winnings on your form.
blackchipjim
I myself rathole but, at the proper time and under the right conditions. I wouldn't do it at my favorite place and not blacks because they are tracked out with larger denom chips. You said your win/loss statement was a cause for concern I assume on winnings and taxes. I heard losing lottery tickets can nullify winnings on your form.
blackchipjim
Martin Gayle
Well-Known Member
How high was this threshold that put you on the radar? Was it a big joint?21forme said:
ihate17
Well-Known Member
ratholing has worked for me for years
Let us say you are making $100 per hour in X casino, how do we hide this over a period of time?
You can not hide a big win. What I do is generally reserved for casinos that I play either regularly or fairly often.
All you need to do is rathole over $100 per hour and you have gone from a net winner to a loser in the eyes of a casino.
1. Do not rathole black as most casinos do track black chips
2. You rathole chips only when you go on a break, player comes in with chips, player colors up.
3. Know how buy ins are recorded in your casino. Does the pit record it on a card or does it go into a computer. Dealers change and pits change, look for a change and ask the dealer if your last (ficticious buy in) was recorded. You often can get them to credit you with an increased buy in that eliminates any need to rathole that session.
If you throw back or add to your buy in a higher amount each several hours than you make and do this fairly consistantly, you will eliminate that win problem in their computer.
ihate17
21forme said:
Let us say you are making $100 per hour in X casino, how do we hide this over a period of time?
You can not hide a big win. What I do is generally reserved for casinos that I play either regularly or fairly often.
All you need to do is rathole over $100 per hour and you have gone from a net winner to a loser in the eyes of a casino.
1. Do not rathole black as most casinos do track black chips
2. You rathole chips only when you go on a break, player comes in with chips, player colors up.
3. Know how buy ins are recorded in your casino. Does the pit record it on a card or does it go into a computer. Dealers change and pits change, look for a change and ask the dealer if your last (ficticious buy in) was recorded. You often can get them to credit you with an increased buy in that eliminates any need to rathole that session.
If you throw back or add to your buy in a higher amount each several hours than you make and do this fairly consistantly, you will eliminate that win problem in their computer.
ihate17