RE: BJ for Blood

[Stealth]

SammyBoy and those of us who like to use AOII count. I sent the following text out to somebody in hope of getting the answers I want. I copied it so all here could see as well. Does anyone here have some help on this subject?
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I have the book. I refer to it now and then. Given that most of my play is from a 6-deck shoe, the tables and indices are not exact for my usual play. I'm quite proficient with the AOII count so I want to stay with it. I'm convinced it will provide me the return I want. I've done well with it so far but don't have the indices down pat. I find that the only table in the book especially just for multi-deck play is the "basic strategy" table. That was etched into stone in my mind long ago. My only complaint with the book is that the advanced tables, I'm assuming are mathematically perfect only for single-deck and maybe d-d. Bryce didn't make it clear as to exactly what game those tables are designed for.
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Is there a revision out yet that would help to clarify and shed some light on this particular issue? Or do you know where I can get the proper play strategy and advance play indices tables for multi-deck with the AOII count? Please respond.
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-Stealth-

 

[phantom007]

If I understand your question...

Most of the tables in BJB refer to TC's (not SD, DD, etc.), so to use AOII for anything past SD requires conversion to TC, and technically, for SD as well.

I use AOII for SD, and usually for DD. For 6D, I usually use a simpler system, presuming higher accuracy somewhat offsets less EV.

You might find reading "LV BJ Diaries" informative...the author used a count similar to AOII, in that it used an Ace Side-Count, and he tracked it down to the 1/4-Deck in mostly 6D play. Over his several months of play, IMHO, won much less that I think that he should, and got "caught" more...I feel due to the complexities of his count.

phantom007.

 

[SammyBoy]

Sorry Stealth, I don't have the info you're looking for. It sounds like Bryce preaches playing more SD and DD and not so much 6D, which is good for me and the main reason I decided to switch to his system. It will take me some time to get fast enough with it I'm afraid. I'm able to flip through a deck of cards without making any mistakes but it is taking 45 seconds, about 20 seconds longer than I can do it using Hi/Lo. It has been only a few days so I think I'm doing ok. I want to get it under 30 with no mistakes before I will try it in a casino. I will also need to add the ACE side count.

 

[SammyBoy]

Hey Stealth

What kind of bet ramp do you use? With Hi/Lo I was basically increasing my bet by 1 unit with each 1 point rise in the count. Using a 1 to 5 spread my max bet was when the count went to +5 or more. Would the same bet ramp work with AOII?

I haven't finished the book yet, so I have not found that info in the book yet.

 

[Cadillac]

just a thaught

As I understand it, Zen is the same count as AOII, except the A and 9 tags are reversed and Zen dosen't require ace side count. Might be better for 6 deck. And i think the index numbers are the same. Someone else mite can verify that.

 

[Stealth]

Math,Math,Math! It's so important. (help please)

SammyBoy:
That's a good question. I'll be damned if know what the mathematical answer is supposed to be. If you read the book a 100 times, you still aren't going to know much more than you do now on this issue. Although, maybe I'm just stupid. I can't really understand the tables in the book, ie. tables 5.6 and 7.10. Some parts of the book aren't really clear to me. Therefore I've been getting some info from a friend. He's a math wiz. However, I think he's estimating. Besides, he's still using Hi/Lo. With all that said, here's what I'm doing on the bj tables while using AOII:
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During 6-d, I'm using a spread of about 1-15, .......s d 1-5....... & d d 1-8. My bets increase 1.5 units (rounded down to nearest $5) for each +1 increase of the t c. This also includes (for betting purposes only) rounding the r c up or down 2 points respectively for every extra or missing ace from the average of what should still be left in the pack.
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This is working for me. But I'm not sure if it is perfect. I think it must be close though.
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Does anyone out there have the perfectly correct betting ramp math for us who are using the AOII?
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Stealth
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P.S. I have a really great single act which I use now and then when I get a monster of a tc which enables me to push the spread to the table limit! Yup, table limit!!! No heat either! But I'm too worried about the damned casino police that monitor what we say on here. So sad. :-( Maybe when we all meet in person someday.

 

[SammyBoy]

Glad I'm Not the Only One

Having trouble understanding his tables. Part of the problem is that he uses a strategy for raising his bets and not just the count. If he wins or loses a hand determines if he pushes out a max bet or not (as well as the count). Unless I'm being watched closely I push out the max bet when the count calls for it. I have my own strategy for adjusting my bets if the heat is on, so it would be nice to have a betting schedule based on the count and not one that is designed to avoid heat.

 

[Stealth]

Attention Math Guru's S.O.S.! RE: AOII

Isn't that amazing? Winning or losing the hand should have no affect on what the next bet should be. Just because a player wins a hand doesn't necessarrily mean that he/she will encounter some heat or even an enquery amongst the pit crew to be "watched". What he is doing in the book, doesn't make mathematical sense. I just want to know the MATH! I'll deal with the heat by making the adjustments in my act and maybe my bet. Maybe we will awaken Bryce C if we keep questioning this stuff. Or maybe I'll try to contact Pi Yee Press for the answers. Just gotta have it. I'm tired of guessing.

Stealth

 

[Stealth]

Just searching for the answers?????

phantom007: I think a few of the play strategy indices should be a little different on 6 deck, other than what Bryce is showing in the book. I do realize that all is based on t c. My question is: Wouldn't some of the indices be different for 6 d?
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Are you using a mathematical strategy for betting increases as the count rises? Please share what you are doing even if it's total guess work. I know you mentioned your NOT using AO2 for 6 deck. But I'm still trying to find someone who knows the "pure math" on betting. It shouldn't matter what type bj table we're on. It's based on t c. Thanks:

Stealth

 

[SammyBoy]

Making Progress

Stealth,

I've got the count down to 40 seconds per deck with no mistakes, but I have not even tried to work in the Ace side count. I'm guessing it will take a few more weeks to get good enough to use it in casino conditions. Hi/Lo had become second nature and I was able to carry on conversations, checkout the babes walking around and look like a regular ploppy. AOII requires too much concentration, at least at this point in my learning curve. Hopefully in a few weeks I will be as comfortable with it as I am with Hi/Lo.

 

[Stealth]

Re: Making Progress

Hey SammyBoy: Good for you. Sounds like you're right on track. However, don't expect to ever get to where you can count it and hold conversations, look like a ploppy and flirt with ladies with bodacious ta tas like you're used to. But if you can do it, you da man.
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Couple more days of practice, you'll be able to take on an average speed dealer at s d or d d. Low min table is the way to begin. Concentrate on your count. Make dealers help add the cards till you can do both. Actually, when you ask the dealer "what do I have" it helps to make you look like a stupid ploppy anyway, which is a good thing. ;-)

Stealth

 

[bfbagain]

Re: AOII

What is it exactly that you need? A couple of answers for you...

1) Bryce uses AOII for 6 decks too. And is still an active player.
2) The indices are RA, although you can modify them slightly. based on an index generator to your specific requirements. CVData does this as well as SBA
3) Each TC is worth .3% advantage whereas High Low = .5% per TC
4) His betting recommendations [bet ramp] has cover built in
5) You can extrapolate [out to 6 decks] when to increase your bets, based on RC [or TC]

I've been using AOII with ace side count for 11 years for SD,DD, and 6 deck.

All counts get the money, if you play them well. AOII is not for everyone.

cheers
bfb

 

[SammyBoy]

Re: AOII

BF,

Thanks for the info! I read in the book to take insurance when the count is 6 or greater. This sounds pretty high for single deck. At what true count do you take ins. for SD, DD or 6D?

 

[SammyBoy]

Just For the Record, This is an Awesome Book!

Even if you don't use the AOII system, it is a very informative book and I wish I had read it 2 years ago.

 

[Stealth]

Re: AOII

Insure all at +6 TC. The 4's, 5's, & 6'es are what makes the count soar upwards quickly. You'll notice that you'll often be using much larger numbers in your RC -&+ with AOII.
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I think I'm going to get to ask Bryce some questions directly, so stay tuned.
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Stealth

 

[bfbagain]

Re: AOII

For SD, I use +5, and for everything else I use +6. And no, they're not too high. It is a level 2 count.

cheers
bfb

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Re: Just For the Record, This is an Awesome Book!

I got tired of waiting for it on eBay and have it coming from Amazon with SW's Tourney book, and BJ Theory. I recently went on a book rampage, Turning the Tables, The Big Player, Take the Money and Run, etc. Each book has something that is covered better than the next one does. I already play Hi Opt II onland and make most of my money playing online BJ now, but it is nice to get a greater understanding of all advantage play.

 

[Stealth]

Re: AOII - Attention bfbagain

Re: Betting Indices
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So if we were to see the betting ramp as a line on a graph, it sounds like as if it would be a curved line going up rather than a straight one. In other words, as the TC goes higher, the percentage of bet amount goes higher. Right??? Also, are you saying that Hi/Lo is more accurate at T C's fairly close to 0? Also, are there no simple bet ramp numbers to memorize?
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Stealth