Read this one!
- Thread starter The Mayor
- Start date
Well....
The jury convicted him not the cops. They voted to believe the police. I feel bad for the AP but the jury was hot to trot. The states case obviously was convincing. As I have said before keep your response low key. Why would anyone want to take on casino security a$$holes who are trained gorillas (sorry about the monkey comparison autoape) with guns. No brain matter beteween those casino ape ears. Some times the film can beat the defense. Its better to look like the victim. I do feel for this AP. F%#k that casino. Boycott them!!! Get the ploppies to boycott them.
The jury convicted him not the cops. They voted to believe the police. I feel bad for the AP but the jury was hot to trot. The states case obviously was convincing. As I have said before keep your response low key. Why would anyone want to take on casino security a$$holes who are trained gorillas (sorry about the monkey comparison autoape) with guns. No brain matter beteween those casino ape ears. Some times the film can beat the defense. Its better to look like the victim. I do feel for this AP. F%#k that casino. Boycott them!!! Get the ploppies to boycott them.
The way I heard the story
Wasn't this the guy who said "Call the police, they're going to take me in the back room and kill me" when they went to backroom him?
If so, at least the newspaper article makes sense. The way it is written, you could get the impression he was arrested for disorderly conduct because he was holecarding.
And the police behavior also makes some sense if this is true. Saying something like that in a crowded casino could cause a panic and for the police to interpret that as disorderly conduct isn't so far over the top as to justify charges agains the police. Not to defend the bad guys, this is just my unbiased opinion.
On the other hand, for the casino to pretend a non-device using holecarder is the same as a cheat and backroom him is way over the top. They deserve to be sued, they were sued, and they settled.
So where's the beef?
Wasn't this the guy who said "Call the police, they're going to take me in the back room and kill me" when they went to backroom him?
If so, at least the newspaper article makes sense. The way it is written, you could get the impression he was arrested for disorderly conduct because he was holecarding.
And the police behavior also makes some sense if this is true. Saying something like that in a crowded casino could cause a panic and for the police to interpret that as disorderly conduct isn't so far over the top as to justify charges agains the police. Not to defend the bad guys, this is just my unbiased opinion.
On the other hand, for the casino to pretend a non-device using holecarder is the same as a cheat and backroom him is way over the top. They deserve to be sued, they were sued, and they settled.
So where's the beef?
Security guards
I have been a security guard. In my experience, remembering the general type of personality of your private security guard, if you are lucky enough to find yourself outside the casino after an altercation such as this, trust me, just walk away. The cops will regard the security guards as their underpaid brethern, and the SC's are usually just guys who have seen too many Starsky and Hutch reruns and couldn't make it as cops. This guy lost this battle as soon as he got caught doing something the ElCo didn't like.
I'm not saying who was right or wrong, that doesn't necessarily matter. I'm saying, just walk away!
oldnewbie
I have been a security guard. In my experience, remembering the general type of personality of your private security guard, if you are lucky enough to find yourself outside the casino after an altercation such as this, trust me, just walk away. The cops will regard the security guards as their underpaid brethern, and the SC's are usually just guys who have seen too many Starsky and Hutch reruns and couldn't make it as cops. This guy lost this battle as soon as he got caught doing something the ElCo didn't like.
I'm not saying who was right or wrong, that doesn't necessarily matter. I'm saying, just walk away!
oldnewbie
The Beef
Wasn't this the guy who said "Call the police, they're going to take me in the back room and kill me" when they went to backroom him?
I believe it was: "Call the police, I'm being kidnapped" (true statement).
On the other hand, for the casino to pretend a non-device using holecarder is the same as a cheat and backroom him is way over the top. They deserve to be sued, they were sued, and they settled.
As three casino employees testified to (casino manager, surveillance operator on duty at the time of the incident, and the security guard who was the complaining witness for the "citizen's arrest"), the casino never suspected the player of using a device, thus their backrooming was illegal and in fact, kidnapping. The detention statute in Nevada is quite clear in this case. The police claimed an unknown mystery surveillance operator, whose name or report they "forgot" to get, made the claim.
In fact, no mention of any "cheating suspicion" is written on any documents until after police arrive.
You also fail to realize the police have a broad immunity of prosecution brush, and to even get a case to trial against them is a feat in itself.
What the decision by this reckless jury does is now allow any casino in Nevada to backroom any player for any reason without fear of criminal charges being brought against them.
Wasn't this the guy who said "Call the police, they're going to take me in the back room and kill me" when they went to backroom him?
I believe it was: "Call the police, I'm being kidnapped" (true statement).
On the other hand, for the casino to pretend a non-device using holecarder is the same as a cheat and backroom him is way over the top. They deserve to be sued, they were sued, and they settled.
As three casino employees testified to (casino manager, surveillance operator on duty at the time of the incident, and the security guard who was the complaining witness for the "citizen's arrest"), the casino never suspected the player of using a device, thus their backrooming was illegal and in fact, kidnapping. The detention statute in Nevada is quite clear in this case. The police claimed an unknown mystery surveillance operator, whose name or report they "forgot" to get, made the claim.
In fact, no mention of any "cheating suspicion" is written on any documents until after police arrive.
You also fail to realize the police have a broad immunity of prosecution brush, and to even get a case to trial against them is a feat in itself.
What the decision by this reckless jury does is now allow any casino in Nevada to backroom any player for any reason without fear of criminal charges being brought against them.
Missing the point
The point here is that the police were called to the scene of a crime and, when asked to take a report by the victim who wished to press charges against those who wrongfully detained him, the police told the victim to get lost and, when he insisted on a report being filed, he was arrested. That is the crime from which the police officers managed to walk away unscathed.
To make an analogy, if someone broke into my house and I called the police to come down and file a report and charge the person who broke in, and they then refused to do so and arrested me, the victim, instead, wouldn't it seem a little strange? The situation with the holecarder in question is no different. He was the victim of a crime and, when he asked that those who perpetrated the crime have action taken against them, he was arrested. In doing so, the police not only failed to do their job properly, but they also violated the victim's civil rights.
In the end, it is just another testament to the failed legal apparatus in modern America.
The point here is that the police were called to the scene of a crime and, when asked to take a report by the victim who wished to press charges against those who wrongfully detained him, the police told the victim to get lost and, when he insisted on a report being filed, he was arrested. That is the crime from which the police officers managed to walk away unscathed.
To make an analogy, if someone broke into my house and I called the police to come down and file a report and charge the person who broke in, and they then refused to do so and arrested me, the victim, instead, wouldn't it seem a little strange? The situation with the holecarder in question is no different. He was the victim of a crime and, when he asked that those who perpetrated the crime have action taken against them, he was arrested. In doing so, the police not only failed to do their job properly, but they also violated the victim's civil rights.
In the end, it is just another testament to the failed legal apparatus in modern America.
Did I misread it?
> The point here is that the police were called to the scene of a crime and,
> when asked to take a report by the victim who wished to press charges
> against those who wrongfully detained him, the police told the victim to get
> lost and, when he insisted on a report being filed, he was arrested. That is
> the crime from which the police officers managed to walk away unscathed.
From what I understand (I may have misread it) the police were responding to the casino's call, not the AP. The casino probably called the police bofore he did, so they thought they were being dispatched to a public disturbance call.
Let's face it, communication is not one of any police department's strengths. I have been pulled over, handcuffed, detained and even held at gunpoint at various times by the LAPD despite my squeaky clean record. There must be some serial killer somewhere that looks just like me! Hopefully they'll find him (and stop finding me) soon.
Among the PD's other weaknesses is their lack of "people skills." Obviously they don't know what the hell is going on when they arrive on a scene, so they treat everybody as a suspect or a potentially dangerous individual. Their first priority is to keep themselves safe. Since they are usually not given nearly enough information about the conditions they are being sent to, often times they end up pulling stunts like this one simply out of ignorance or miscommunication.
As far as security guards go, don't ever trust them! I used to be one too, so believe me when I say that I and many of my brethren were DUMBASSES! I was given a training manual to study for 30 minutes, then a 15 minute written test. The next week I was on the street as a security guard. A week later I got my paycheck for $400. Not exactly ideal circumstances, eh?
-Sonny-
> The point here is that the police were called to the scene of a crime and,
> when asked to take a report by the victim who wished to press charges
> against those who wrongfully detained him, the police told the victim to get
> lost and, when he insisted on a report being filed, he was arrested. That is
> the crime from which the police officers managed to walk away unscathed.
From what I understand (I may have misread it) the police were responding to the casino's call, not the AP. The casino probably called the police bofore he did, so they thought they were being dispatched to a public disturbance call.
Let's face it, communication is not one of any police department's strengths. I have been pulled over, handcuffed, detained and even held at gunpoint at various times by the LAPD despite my squeaky clean record. There must be some serial killer somewhere that looks just like me! Hopefully they'll find him (and stop finding me) soon.
Among the PD's other weaknesses is their lack of "people skills." Obviously they don't know what the hell is going on when they arrive on a scene, so they treat everybody as a suspect or a potentially dangerous individual. Their first priority is to keep themselves safe. Since they are usually not given nearly enough information about the conditions they are being sent to, often times they end up pulling stunts like this one simply out of ignorance or miscommunication.
As far as security guards go, don't ever trust them! I used to be one too, so believe me when I say that I and many of my brethren were DUMBASSES! I was given a training manual to study for 30 minutes, then a 15 minute written test. The next week I was on the street as a security guard. A week later I got my paycheck for $400. Not exactly ideal circumstances, eh?
-Sonny-
Security and police
I hear you man, I also once worked as a security guard and I know how messed up those guys can be. Way too many of them have either been fired from a PD for misconduct, or were denied a job as a cop for a psychological or criminal problem. You probably had a higher IQ than all of your peers combined.
I once had to stop my supervisor from doing crazy stuff. He had detained two minors in an unoccupied office for interrogation because he found them loitering on the premises. I told him, man that is crazy, you had better let them go now. When you find kids loitering, you just tell them to go home, that's all. But he started getting aggressive with me and it looked bad, so I propped the door open with my foot and told the kids to run like hell and never come back, which they did. The supervisor wanted literally to kill me, but the next day the big boss said I was absolutely right and the guy almost got fired, and the company lawyer had to talk his way out of a lawsuit.
Now after knowing what I know I steer clear of security guards even in casinos. I don't like violence and wouldn't want to hurt anyone, but if I had to choose between letting those clowns handcuff me or take me into a back room, or dropping one on his head, I would choose the last option just for my own safety. And if I hurt my back when lifting the guy to drop him on his head, then it's time to call Mr. Nersesian.
I hear you man, I also once worked as a security guard and I know how messed up those guys can be. Way too many of them have either been fired from a PD for misconduct, or were denied a job as a cop for a psychological or criminal problem. You probably had a higher IQ than all of your peers combined.
I once had to stop my supervisor from doing crazy stuff. He had detained two minors in an unoccupied office for interrogation because he found them loitering on the premises. I told him, man that is crazy, you had better let them go now. When you find kids loitering, you just tell them to go home, that's all. But he started getting aggressive with me and it looked bad, so I propped the door open with my foot and told the kids to run like hell and never come back, which they did. The supervisor wanted literally to kill me, but the next day the big boss said I was absolutely right and the guy almost got fired, and the company lawyer had to talk his way out of a lawsuit.
Now after knowing what I know I steer clear of security guards even in casinos. I don't like violence and wouldn't want to hurt anyone, but if I had to choose between letting those clowns handcuff me or take me into a back room, or dropping one on his head, I would choose the last option just for my own safety. And if I hurt my back when lifting the guy to drop him on his head, then it's time to call Mr. Nersesian.
Not so bad
The player was grabbed by casino and then charged with disturbing the peace for yelling for help. The judge dismissed the distrubing peace charge. He sued the casino and they settled with him. He sued the police and lost at trial.
All this says is the jury found police were ok. It didn't find casino was ok.
Maybe Mayor with your contacts you could get Mr. Nersesian (lawyer) to tell us his opinion on what this means for counters?
The player was grabbed by casino and then charged with disturbing the peace for yelling for help. The judge dismissed the distrubing peace charge. He sued the casino and they settled with him. He sued the police and lost at trial.
All this says is the jury found police were ok. It didn't find casino was ok.
Maybe Mayor with your contacts you could get Mr. Nersesian (lawyer) to tell us his opinion on what this means for counters?