Reasons to end a session?

#1
What conditions do you guys consider to end a session if you want longevity?
1) playing 1-2 hours max?
2) winning less than the perceived amount tolerated by the casino? ($1000 for a smaller casino)
3) do you leave after the shoe if you showed your max bet to the pit boss even if you ended the shoe with a true 1/2 bet?
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#2
4) When you discover the casino is cheating.

Recently I had a very bad experience on a hand shuffled game. It is 6D game. The penetration is great, you got played 5.4D to 5.7D. out of 6D But the odd thing is that I was losing and no one won in my 3 hour session. The TC never exceeds +1.5 in my playing time. So I basically played table minimal in the entire 3 hours. Normally I will end the session when I show my max bet. Since the event never came, I stayed much longer for the session.
Many of you know I side count ace and 8/9 besides my main Zen count. This is what I discovered the casino is cheating and left the table.

All evening, there is the surplus of mid-card count (8 and 9) on almost every shoe as shoe progresses. Last shoe I played dealer cut only 0.3 deck out of the 6 decks because there are only two players left at the table, so he cut deeper than usual. Then more and more people join, it became a full table. I actually expect the dealer would run out of the cards and reshuffled the whole six deck just to finish the last round. But luckily when the red card came out and the last round ended, there are six cards left. He was joking he does not need to shuffle as it happened before. But my mid card count was 32 at that point. There are 48 mid cards (8 and 9) in the six deck shoes. Even all the six unseen cards are 8 or 9. There are still a few mid card missing. No wonder when I hit 12 v 2 or 12 v 3 on negative count, I never caught a 8 or 9 that everning. I think the casino replaces some 8 and 9 cards with face cards, so count will appear negative more frequently and counters cannot raise their bets. Also this makes index plays inaccurate.
 
#3
BJgenius007 said:
4) When you discover the casino is cheating.

Recently I had a very bad experience on a hand shuffled game. It is 6D game. The penetration is great, you got played 5.4D to 5.7D. out of 6D But the odd thing is that I was losing and no one won in my 3 hour session. The TC never exceeds +1.5 in my playing time. So I basically played table minimal in the entire 3 hours. Normally I will end the session when I show my max bet. Since the event never came, I stayed much longer for the session.
Many of you know I side count ace and 8/9 besides my main Zen count. This is what I discovered the casino is cheating and left the table.

All evening, there is the surplus of mid-card count (8 and 9) on almost every shoe as shoe progresses. Last shoe I played dealer cut only 0.3 deck out of the 6 decks because there are only two players left at the table, so he cut deeper than usual. Then more and more people join, it became a full table. I actually expect the dealer would run out of the cards and reshuffled the whole six deck just to finish the last round. But luckily when the red card came out and the last round ended, there are six cards left. He was joking he does not need to shuffle as it happened before. But my mid card count was 32 at that point. There are 48 mid cards (8 and 9) in the six deck shoes. Even all the six unseen cards are 8 or 9. There are still a few mid card missing. No wonder when I hit 12 v 2 or 12 v 3 on negative count, I never caught a 8 or 9 that everning. I think the casino replaces some 8 and 9 cards with face cards, so count will appear negative more frequently and counters cannot raise their bets. Also this makes index plays inaccurate.
I suspect most counters would never realize the casino is cheating since most do not side count 8/9 or even ace when playing shoes. Is this specific casino somewhere in Vegas?
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#4
BJgenius007 said:
Even all the six unseen cards are 8 or 9. There are still a few mid card missing. No wonder when I hit 12 v 2 or 12 v 3 on negative count, I never caught a 8 or 9 that everning. I think the casino replaces some 8 and 9 cards with face cards, so count will appear negative more frequently and counters cannot raise their bets. Also this makes index plays inaccurate.
You are suggesting the casino is cheating by replacing some of the neutral value 8's and 9's with 10 value cards, advantageous the players, to effect players hitting 12 vs 2 and 12 vs 3? :oops:

Umm, what about the 99.99 percent of players that aren't counting? Replace a few neutral cards with 10 value and the game could become +EV, or closer to break even (less house advantage) for all of these players? Seems like a funny way to cheat. ;)
 

BJgenius007

Well-Known Member
#5
KewlJ said:
You are suggesting the casino is cheating by replacing some of the neutral value 8's and 9's with 10 value cards, advantageous the players, to effect players hitting 12 vs 2 and 12 vs 3? :oops:

Umm, what about the 99.99 percent of players that aren't counting? Replace a few neutral cards with 10 value and the game could become +EV, or closer to break even (less house advantage) for all of these players? Seems like a funny way to cheat. ;)
That is exactly what I thought. But supposed casinos did this only 25% or 33% of the time, only on holidays and weekends (I believe ZenKing who is sensitive enough to sense this), ploppies who do not hit 12 vs 2 will lose in total, not counting all the mistakes they make. But the main goal is to constantly lower TC because there are unbalance between small cards and face/ace cards. There are about 12 more faces than the normal. This is likely to start RC at +22 initially to balance out the 12 extra face cards. By the way, the ace count ended exactly at 24 on my last shoe, so casino did not tamper with aces. I got much more natural than usual due to extra face cards, but I am still losing because most of the index plays fail.
 
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