Recent Vegas Trip

Big Cowboy

Well-Known Member
#1
I don't go to Vegas too often but usually look forward to playing BJ since I don't get too many opportunities to do that at home also. Too busy usually is the excuse. But when the opportunity presents itself, I don't say to to Vegas. Whenever I go, it is always a jolt to breathe the air there. The cigarette and cigar smoke just hits you so hard, it usually almost knocks me down. Keep in mind though that when I'm winning, I'll inhale people's BO, flatulence, cigarette smoking, and ploppy play. But when I lose, anything and everything annoys me. So let's just say, a lot of things annoyed me on my trip. Also, I use the Hi-OptI and play shoes. I know. I know. I've heard the comments from the good people on this board, but that is what I'm comfortable using for now and have done well in the past.
There weren't as many Asians around when I played which is usually a good thing. No offense, but the Asians, especially from Hong Kong, with too much money and no smarts really do astonish me with their play. Saw a guy from HK bet $5000 on a single hand, lost it, and acted nonchalantly when his money was gone. He was most definitely not an advantage player. Also loved the Vietnamese woman who told me how to play my hands, especially loudly when I had an A5 to a dealer 4 and told me not to double down but to stand. This from a woman who stayed on 12 when the dealer had a ten. I won my A5 double down, and she lost on her stay 12. She still never shut up.
Three other areas of note. I have no idea why people play at tables with CSMs. I just consider any casino that offers those games as gutless and playing dirty pool. It doesn't say a lot for those ploppies who mistakenly play them thinking that they are playing blackjack. That also goes for 6:5 blackjack. Why in God's name do people play games where the casino is essentially loading the dice? It's just dumb, stupid, ignorant. Remember the immortal words of Dean Wormer (which fit well with the people who play by the above rules): Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son. Finally, players all the time mention that they play by the book. I think they mean basic strategy. The trouble is the basic strategy they're trying to play is usually undecipherable to me. I don't know what book they're reading, but it must have been written by the same guy who wrote "How to Lose Money and Still Enjoy Yourselves."
Pounded the pavement like Mr. Mayor, except I do it to look for good BJ rules. Please correct any wrong information that I am about to provide. Played a little at the Frontir even with the litigation story on this web site about that casino. Lost a couple of units. Played more just to get warmed up more than anything. (6D, H17, LS, 67% penetration) The penetration was a red flag. Also, I kinda wish some of these casinos would get a clue and actually do some cleaning at their place. Is that too much to ask for?
Did not play at the Stadust. Many $5 tables available. (6D, H17, do not recall penetration or surrender status)
Played a little at the Rivera. The rules there have not changed in many years for 6 decks. Not too many people there. A lot of tables open. (70%-75% penetration, 6 decks, DAS, split aces, S17, no LS) Won five units. Not a bad place to play, but I thought I could find better.
Did not play at the Venetia. (8D, H17) I hate playing eight decks.
The Flaming is a good place to play. I never make any money there, but the rules are not too bad. (80% penetration, 6 decks, H17, DAS, LS, dealer burns a card with each change in dealer) The penetration kept me there but still lost 35 units. A lot of tables open for use. Could not win my double downs and splits regularly. The TC would be nicely positive, but I never got the double down cards which made me feel somewhat comfortable. Frustrating to keep losing like that, especially when the other players who were not even playing basic strategy appearred to be winning.
Ball's. Did not play there. (8D, H17, LS) I thought the rules were inferior.
This place used to be a favorite of mine. Now I just avoid it.
The Lion used to be my favorite place to play, but they keep making it harder to play there. It's big and open. However, they used to have a lot more tables with good rules, but I noticed that a lot more of their tables were H17. It is still 6D, DAS, LS, 75% penetration. They only had a small number of S17 tables available. Definitely read the table rules before sitting down. I noticed this trend at Cheezers also. On a previous trip I remember losing a hand when the dealer surprised me when she improved her hand on a soft 17. I thought I had won the hand, until more cards were pulled out. Again, had trouble winning my double downs. It was almost like a cooler sat down next to me, except I was never winning much in the first place.
Aladsin. Didn't play there. (8D, S17) It's hard enough to get good counts with 6 decks. I just don't like playing eight.
The Volcano. Did not play there. You had to play $25 minimum hands in order to get a six deck game. It was either that or play the CSMs. No thank you. The $25 minimum is too rich for my bankroll. But this place was still crowded even with the predominance of the CSMs. Go figure.
At the Volcano's next door neighbor is now the siren singing, freaky casino. Still bad rules there as usual. Did not play. There was one $5 2-deck game, owtherwise, there were a ton of CSMs. Gag.
The Circus. Did not play there. (6D, S17, no LS; or 2D, H17, BJ pays 6:5) I used to like playing there. The fun has gone away for me there.
Harry's. Did not play there. (8D, H17) It sure does not look like a fun mardi gras in there.
Did not play in France. They still had 8D with H17. The French seem to be trying to get the better of the American tourist.
At the Japanese Palace, played a little. Still as dirty and smelly as ever. (6D, 67% pen, H17, no LS). Bad shoe rules. Great looking cocktail waitresses. I tried playing 2 decks for the first time, but figured out the rules aren't very good. (No LS, H17, 50% pen) Lost one unit. Only played face down because I was the only one playing. Still could not get a good run. Left when the dealer suggested I look for another table. I guess I whined too much.
The Bellagio still has too many CSMs. It really caters to the crowd which supposedly has a larger bankroll, but those CSMs just keep me away. No good reason to play there.
So I ended up mostly at Cheezers. It is a comfortable place to play. They've split their casino into two areas. A richer, high-roller area and a not as rich area. Lowest minimum was $10. A lot of tables to choose from, but again read the table rules for hit and stand 17. Otherwise, it was 6D, LS, DAS, split aces. Maybe I am just mistaken, but I thought the penetration for the H17 tables was consistently 80% and for the S17 around 75%. The other thing of note is that at 4:00 AM, those $10 minimum tables close down for awhile, and the table minimums offered are $25 and up. Annoying since the rules and the ambience in my opinion make the casino a good place to play. It's large and open, and the smoky air was bearable, but the cocktail waitresses need more help. They don't seem to hire enough of them, and with the ones that they have in their skimpy outfits, really need a lot more makeup or a lot more alcohol for me. Of course, my luck with double downs and splits followed me there also.
It was not the best of trips. I ended up being down about 100 units overall. Disappointing, but understandable. I kept my mistakes to a minimum by wonging out when the TC was unbearably negative or if I had any inkling that I had lost the actual count. Used the betting scheme suggested by the Mayor based on the TC. Unfortunately sometimes bad cards happen to good people. Wait until next time. Those double down and split hands really made the difference. I hope my descriptions are helpful. I wanted to provide the table rules to help those who may not know even though I understand that the more veteran crowd here probably deems that to be redundant info for them. No grand excitement or arrests (me). I usually go for clean winning and fun. Did not touch a thing that the hispanic guys were handing out. All I can say, wait until the next time. Good luck to you all, and take as much as you can.
 
#2
Thanks for the report

A very good post. Continue to hit them where it hurts.

You bring up a very interesting question:

6D, DOA, DAS, LS, split aces.
H17 - 80% Pen.
S17 - 75% Pen.

Which is the better game? S17 has lower BS house edge, but at what kind of large spread does the H17 80% Pen become the game to play? LS really helps when it comes to comparing pen type questions like this also, since it is going to help cut down the variance of a monster spread.

What about Wong possibilities? Wouldn't it be better to Wong the inferior rule (but better Pen game) with large bets? Won't the advantage situations present themselves slightly more frequently leading to better per hour return?

With a normal 1:10 spread, how much more pen do you need over a 75% S17 to make the H17 game better?
 

The Mayor

Well-Known Member
#3
Great report

You really covered the shoe action on the strip. Hopefully next trip you will not be as "annoyed".

The H17/S17 thing is not big at all -- especially compared to decent penetration and getting LSR.

Thanks again for taking the time to share with us,

--Mayor
 

V-man

Active Member
#4
Re: S17 vs H17

Calculator on Casino Verite web site has the following results in SCORE:

- 6D, S17, DAS, LS, fair pen (78 cards). Spread 12, play Hi-lo I18 & F4 SCORE=30.67 and N0=32656
- 6D, H17, DAS, LS, good pen (52 cards). Spread 12, play Hi-lo I18 & F4 SCORE=36.25 and N0=27531

Of course, the difference between 78 & 52 is huge. I don't have the software to run the pen in between, my guess is the S17 slightly edges H17 with 75% & 80%.
 
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