Results from Vegas outing

[Diver]

Somewhat limited over three days because I had some things to do besides play BJ. I had been experiencing sustained negative fluctuation for several weeks on practice CV and a few local sessions, so I was a bit apprehensive going in. I wound up + $1700 through eleven sessions, nine of which ended positively. All of the play was on the strip and mostly DD H17 but my best single session was DD S17; all DD had $25 minimum and I used a spread of 1-6, only getting over four units maybe three times. I started out on 6D S17 due to the $15 minimum but after getting spanked on some index plays at a high count (TKO +5), I shifted to DD and bounced back through some splits with four units out to end up $750. I then had two losing sessions with poor counts and some bad fluctuation even on the few instances where the count was positive, losing $700 and then $1,000. Penetration was probably seldom more than 50%. So I found a game with slightly better penetration and bounced back with a $1400 win. The remainder entailed winning sessions of $200-250, one of which was 6D. I have lots to work on for speed and style (see question elsewhere about counting technique). $100knocked off my hotel bill after the players club checked my rating, so it will be interesting to see what, if any, promotions follow. Bankroll is now $18K: $8K is actual winnings and $10K is what I arbitrarily decided I'd committ in order to get started. So the learning curve has been gentle so far.

 

[Rspeirsmlb]

How long have you been playing?

 

[BJinNJ]

Nice report! Thanks. eom

BJinNJ

 

[Brock Windsor]

That Pen is really hurting your expectation. Try to shop around for 2/3's minimum if you can.

 

[Diver]

How long have you been playing?

I started learning to count this summer after having some very fortunate experience while at a convention using BS in four winning 6D sessions. The winings I reported include 2K from that trip. It was pointed out here that I was very lucky so I resigned myself to learning KO. It's been slow going because I have limited faculty for mathmatics and my way of learning almost anything is about repetition and then insight/understanding after I get the "feel" of it.

 

[Diver]

That Pen is really hurting your expectation. Try to shop around for 2/3's minimum if you can.

I realized I'm going to have to be more open to taking time shopping around as you suggest rather than grinding it out once I get started with these 50-55% games. I've also noticed a false sense of comfort can set in when I spend several hours going back and forth without drawing any heat and then it becomes tempting to hang out too long when earnings shoot up. It seemed that closing out up 10-20 units was fine. But is it likely that even without heat at the time, a long session that turns good and winds up +80 units in a $25 min. game will be reviewed later?

 

[mjbballar23]

vegas

how many of you have encountered other counters in Vegas? With some many counters going there it seems like that would be a pretty regular occurance...

 

[TENNBEAR]

how many of you have encountered other counters in Vegas? With some many counters going there it seems like that would be a pretty regular occurance...

I was in Vegas for my first time, one month ago, for a week, and I never detected another counter the whole week. However, I have only run into a few players that I knew they were counting in the past. That said, it is very possible that I have played with other counters that I never detected.

 

[EasyRhino]

DD H17 on the strip... were you playing the crappy Harrah's games with no DAS? blech.

 

[Diver]

DD H17 on the strip... were you playing the crappy Harrah's games with no DAS? blech.

No way. DAS saved my toast several times on this last trip. My fav. was two splits with two doubles and a dealer bust.

 

[ihate17]

What makes you think so many counters are there?

how many of you have encountered other counters in Vegas? With some many counters going there it seems like that would be a pretty regular occurance...

If you consider how many people play in Vegas and then consider the amount of counters out there, our numbers are extremely small. Then there is always the question of how many of those counters are proficient and how many are losing counters?
Another point is in my opinion most Vegas casinos are better at identifying good counters than casinos in many other locations and many counters make occassional trips to Vegas while playing in their home areas often.
Many of the best games in Vegas are under the MGM banner and certain amounts of good cover, id's, and common sense must be used by players at a higher bet level to prevent a backoff which might keep you off blackjack tables at all MGM properties.
Sometimes, the best counters are the ones you and the casino do not think are counting.
I do run into other counters in Vegas but would consider it an irregular occurance.

ihate17

 

[Diver]

If you consider how many people play in Vegas and then consider the amount of counters out there, our numbers are extremely small. Then there is always the question of how many of those counters are proficient and how many are losing counters?
Another point is in my opinion most Vegas casinos are better at identifying good counters than casinos in many other locations and many counters make occassional trips to Vegas while playing in their home areas often.
Many of the best games in Vegas are under the MGM banner and certain amounts of good cover, id's, and common sense must be used by players at a higher bet level to prevent a backoff which might keep you off blackjack tables at all MGM properties.
Sometimes, the best counters are the ones you and the casino do not think are counting.
I do run into other counters in Vegas but would consider it an irregular occurance.

ihate17

Do all MGM properties share details on players they back off? I notice the Mirage is said by CBJN to use a facial recognition system but that's not indicated on the others. I seem to recall HET shares player information nationally, is that correct?

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

That Pen is really hurting your expectation. Try to shop around for 2/3's minimum if you can.

Etch these words in stone. Burn them into the memory of every game player. It's how small timers like me survive.

Every time I engage a DD game with a 1 - 8 spread and hardly more than 50% penetration it still eventually grinds me down to a loss. Small so far. I left after an hour of slow defeats. Maybe down only seventy bucks.

Yet put me on a 70% or better and I've never lost at DD. Not even once. And only rarely at the shoe games. Both those times can be racked up to temporary stupidity as opposed to the fault of the game.

 

[mjbballar23]

vegas

If you consider how many people play in Vegas and then consider the amount of counters out there, our numbers are extremely small. Then there is always the question of how many of those counters are proficient and how many are losing counters?
ihate17

thats a good point. i was just thinking since many counters go there, and since counters only play the most favorable conditions, that they would all tend to swing toward the same tables(2d,s17, 80% pen, etc). I havent been there but that was just my thought.

 

[ihate17]

And the casino knows or believes this

thats a good point. i was just thinking since many counters go there, and since counters only play the most favorable conditions, that they would all tend to swing toward the same tables(2d,s17, 80% pen, etc). I havent been there but that was just my thought.

First off, that 80% pen is not easy to find and when found should be considered a gift.

Those casinos with S-17 DD games also concentrate their best evaluating staffs at these games. These games can sometimes be considered counter traps.
Those that provide consistant good pen have probably made a decision that it is to their benefit to ID counters and back them off rather than cut pen and get less hands dealt.

So if I go to Vegas, I will play this game at several casinos, often unrated and always for short sessions. I will also play a few H-17 DD games if the pen is good enough to make up for the rule change. There are also good 6D games where, in my case, I feel more comfortable with longer sessions.

ihate17

 

[ihate17]

MGM notifies their sister properties

Do all MGM properties share details on players they back off? I notice the Mirage is said by CBJN to use a facial recognition system but that's not indicated on the others. I seem to recall HET shares player information nationally, is that correct?

The MGM door is still open to me and I question the abilities of facial recognition (I will not go into details), but others who have been backed off at one MGM property do report that word is put into the computer system immediately.