"Rule of 45"

A

AlanC

New Member
#1
#1
Hi,

Question about the "Rule of 45":

On a CSM table, should you stand on a two-card 16 against a dealer 10 upcard if any of the other players at the table have a 4 or 5?
 
T

tthree

Banned
#3
#3
Go to any chart that compares systems for counting and see the card point values for any balanced count (pick one with a high PE) and you can do the math. Hit if your count is negative as the index is probably 0 for that hand match up. It is very easy.
 
Coyote

Coyote

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
tthree said:
Go to any chart that compares systems for counting and see the card point values for any balanced count (pick one with a high PE) and you can do the math. Hit if your count is negative as the index is probably 0 for that hand match up. It is very easy.
Click to expand...
The OP is talking hand compisition, and relating it the what is shown on the table. How does on reconcile the "45 rule" with counting. The 4 and 5 are no longer available to help turn your 16 into a 20 or 21? :eek:
 
T

tthree

Banned
#5
#5
Coyote said:
The OP is talking hand compisition, and relating it the what is shown on the table. How does on reconcile the "45 rule" with counting. The 4 and 5 are no longer available to help turn your 16 into a 20 or 21? :eek:
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I was encouraging him to try counting with a little taste on this match up where no TC conversion is necessary. As a counter this would clearly be a stand situation. Just thought he might learn something and maybe progress into a better player by understanding counting and perhaps pursuing it. Why hand him a fish when you can encourage him to learn to catch them himself and feed him forever rather than 1 meal.
 
Coyote

Coyote

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
tthree said:
I was encouraging him to try counting with a little taste on this match up where no TC conversion is necessary. As a counter this would clearly be a stand situation. Just thought he might learn something and maybe progress into a better player by understanding counting and perhaps pursuing it. Why hand him a fish when you can encourage him to learn to catch them himself and feed him forever rather than 1 meal.
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I can appreciate that! I'm learning soooo much! Reading all the time. It's hard sometimes to make everything mesh together. In this situation, say the count is negative ie -1...What would be the proper play of the hand? Also, lets say we are playing a 6 deck shoe.
 
T

tthree

Banned
#7
#7
Coyote said:
I can appreciate that! I'm learning soooo much! Reading all the time. It's hard sometimes to make everything mesh together. In this situation, say the count is negative ie -1...What would be the proper play of the hand? Also, lets say we are playing a 6 deck shoe.
Click to expand...
If he did what I told him and noticed enough face cards on the felt to make the count for all cards in view -1 then he should hit shoe or not. The index is zero so no TC conversion is necessary.
 
R

Renzey

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
AlanC said:
Hi,

Question about the "Rule of 45":

On a CSM table, should you stand on a two-card 16 against a dealer 10 upcard if any of the other players at the table have a 4 or 5?
Click to expand...
The most preliminary form of hand evaluation is generic basic strategy. Just barely beyond that comes the Rule of 45 for 16 vs. 10. The next small step beyond that would be Board Counting the "Babies" vs. 10's on board, where Babies are the 2's thru 5's.

With 16 against a 10, if there are as many as, or more Babies than 10's on board (including your own hand and the dealer's up-card), STAND. If there are less, HIT. Do the same with 12 against a 4. This is actually a small "freeze-frame" snipet of card counting that fits in well with CSM basic strategy play.

You can expand that to hitting 13 against a 2 if there are at least 4 more 10's than Babies on board -- and doubling 9 against a 2 if there are at least 4 more Babies on board than 10's (assuming a five deck CSM).
 
Coyote

Coyote

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Renzey said:
The most preliminary form of hand evaluation is generic basic strategy. Just barely beyond that comes the Rule of 45 for 16 vs. 10. The next small step beyond that would be Board Counting the "Babies" vs. 10's on board, where Babies are the 2's thru 5's.

With 16 against a 10, if there are as many as, or more Babies than 10's on board (including your own hand and the dealer's up-card), STAND. If there are less, HIT. Do the same with 12 against a 4. This is actually a small "freeze-frame" snipet of card counting that fits in well with CSM basic strategy play.

You can expand that to hitting 13 against a 2 if there are at least 4 more 10's than Babies on board -- and doubling 9 against a 2 if there are at least 4 more Babies on board than 10's (assuming a five deck CSM).
Click to expand...
Thank you Renzey.

And thank you tthree.

Regards,
Coyote
 
C

chessplayer

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
I am evaluating. It will be better to match these babies against 7 to 10 for 16 vs 10 .

Renzey said:
The most preliminary form of hand evaluation is generic basic strategy. Just barely beyond that comes the Rule of 45 for 16 vs. 10. The next small step beyond that would be Board Counting the "Babies" vs. 10's on board, where Babies are the 2's thru 5's.

With 16 against a 10, if there are as many as, or more Babies than 10's on board (including your own hand and the dealer's up-card), STAND. If there are less, HIT. Do the same with 12 against a 4. This is actually a small "freeze-frame" snipet of card counting that fits in well with CSM basic strategy play.

You can expand that to hitting 13 against a 2 if there are at least 4 more 10's than Babies on board -- and doubling 9 against a 2 if there are at least 4 more Babies on board than 10's (assuming a five deck CSM).
Click to expand...
 
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