Scott H, you are mistaken according to this guy

[ihate17]

Scott H. posted I think on the VooDoo forum that cardcounters can not control the cards. Pretty much a true statement I thought but a ploppy super moron told me different last night.

I am sitting at first base with another player who is playing two hands on the other end of the table. I am dealt soft 18, the ploppy has 14 and 15, and the dealer has a ten up. I hit my soft 18 and luck out hitting a 3. The other player stays on both his stiffs, while the dealer turns a 6 for 16, hits a 4, pays me and takes the guys money. He then looks straight at me and actually states, "if you did not hit your 18 the dealer would have busted!" Of course I tell him the dealer would have gotten my 3 and beat us both since you stayed on your junk. His reply, "Oh no, different cards would have come out of the shoe if you did not hit"

I never knew I could do that, but I did know that some people are just that dumb.

Guy storms off calling me an idiot and the dealer, a pretty young lady of perhaps 25, says to me very quietly, "someday I think I am going to write a book about the things said on blackjack tables but no one would believe half of it."

So to Scott H, I guess I can control the cards and have a certifiable witness to the fact.

ihate17

 

[dacium]

He probably meant he would have hit if you didn't draw a 3. You know how these guys are, if you take a low card they will stand.

Surely no one can be that dumb?

 

[supercoolmancool]

Hey don't write this guy off so fast. Here is an exert from the Zengrifter interview:


Some readers who have studied quantum-physics will recall the hypothesis of “Dr. Schrödinger’s
Cat.” Schrödinger posited that a cat placed into an electrically wired black box which, in turn, was
randomly electrified - only sometimes with enough juice to kill the cat, with the random charges
unknown to the observing experimenter - would result in neither a dead nor a living cat until the
box is opened and the animal’s state observed. Along similar lines, the next card dealt from the
shoe is not pre-determined, at least not in ‘quantum-reality.’ Thus a gambler’s beliefs may very
well indeed affect his results.

 

[rogue1]

yes

They are SO out there Sculley!

 

[MrPill]

Well.....

Hey don't write this guy off so fast. Here is an exert from the Zengrifter interview:


Some readers who have studied quantum-physics will recall the hypothesis of “Dr. Schrödinger’s
Cat.” Schrödinger posited that a cat placed into an electrically wired black box which, in turn, was
randomly electrified - only sometimes with enough juice to kill the cat, with the random charges
unknown to the observing experimenter - would result in neither a dead nor a living cat until the
box is opened and the animal’s state observed. Along similar lines, the next card dealt from the
shoe is not pre-determined, at least not in ‘quantum-reality.’ Thus a gambler’s beliefs may very
well indeed affect his results.

....the next card is "pre-determined", it is the choice of the gambler that may not be pre-determined if they enlist in these belief's that may sway them from the reality of the math.

Furthermore, regardless of whether you open the box or not, the cat will still be dead if the box is electrified with enough juice.

Pill

 

[sagefr0g]

Quote:
Originally Posted by supercoolmancool View Post
Hey don't write this guy off so fast. Here is an exert from the Zengrifter interview:


Some readers who have studied quantum-physics will recall the hypothesis of “Dr. Schrödinger’s
Cat.” Schrödinger posited that a cat placed into an electrically wired black box which, in turn, was
randomly electrified - only sometimes with enough juice to kill the cat, with the random charges
unknown to the observing experimenter - would result in neither a dead nor a living cat until the
box is opened and the animal’s state observed. Along similar lines, the next card dealt from the
shoe is not pre-determined, at least not in ‘quantum-reality.’ Thus a gambler’s beliefs may very
well indeed affect his results.

....the next card is "pre-determined", it is the choice of the gambler that may not be pre-determined if they enlist in these belief's that may sway them from the reality of the math.

Furthermore, regardless of whether you open the box or not, the cat will still be dead if the box is electrified with enough juice.

Pill

perhaps the next card is pre-determined (depending on which of the many worlds your consciousness is in or however you want to view the quantum implications).
right the choice of the gambler isn't pre-determine either.
the question is.... is the wisdom of the gamblers choice at the moment he makes the choice pre-determined according to the likely statistical out come for marginal plays? the proper basic strategy play or departure may or may not win in a given case. choosing to depart against the prescribed play may win for the particular instant the gamblers decision is made. next time a similar scenerio presents the gambler could vary what he does and still win.
for such marginal plays perhaps life is short enough that such a gamble might come out ahead.

 

[supercoolmancool]

The Zengrifter interview said that your belief decides the cards. They are not in any predetermined order. If you belief the next card is a 10, then it is a 10! You're belief can change the cards.

 

[sagefr0g]

The Zengrifter interview said that your belief decides the cards. They are not in any predetermined order. If you belief the next card is a 10, then it is a 10! You're belief can change the cards.

if the cards are not pre-determined there is nothing to change.
the results might be able to change as measured against some standard of belief that is dependent upon some action for which you decide to take an alternate action that is based on some belief you hold, :cat:

 

[shadroch]

I've seen a few situations where a person can WILL the dealer to see a card as different than what it is.Last week,I had a very large bet out and ended up splitting and Doubling down on one.Ended up with two 18s and a 17.Dealer pulled an 18.Guy next to me calls out that I won two hands and pushed the other. Sure enuff,dealer pays me twice and knocks for the other.
So,obviously,not only are the cards pre-determined,but ones belief can actually change their value after the fact.

 

[21forme]

I've seen a few situations where a person can WILL the dealer to see a card as different than what it is.Last week,I had a very large bet out and ended up splitting and Doubling down on one.Ended up with two 18s and a 17.Dealer pulled an 18.Guy next to me calls out that I won two hands and pushed the other. Sure enuff,dealer pays me twice and knocks for the other.
So,obviously,not only are the cards pre-determined,but ones belief can actually change their value after the fact.

I had that happen once and then another player told the dealer he was wrong!

 

[ihate17]

Playing in different realities

Hey don't write this guy off so fast. Here is an exert from the Zengrifter interview:


Some readers who have studied quantum-physics will recall the hypothesis of “Dr. Schrödinger’s
Cat.” Schrödinger posited that a cat placed into an electrically wired black box which, in turn, was
randomly electrified - only sometimes with enough juice to kill the cat, with the random charges
unknown to the observing experimenter - would result in neither a dead nor a living cat until the
box is opened and the animal’s state observed. Along similar lines, the next card dealt from the
shoe is not pre-determined, at least not in ‘quantum-reality.’ Thus a gambler’s beliefs may very
well indeed affect his results.

Supercoolman
Thank you for the explaination though I heavily did suspect that this guy was in a different reality than I was and your post confirmed this for me.

Anyway, when I eventually do write my book, this guys gets a definate mention. I have been working on something of a blackjack book that does not give up any secrets or even tells you how to play. Just a group of stories about things I have seen or experienced during my years on the tables. Humorous to disasterous (I like the humorous best), just Tales From the Felt.

ihate17

 

[ScottH]

Supercoolman
Thank you for the explaination though I heavily did suspect that this guy was in a different reality than I was and your post confirmed this for me.

Anyway, when I eventually do write my book, this guys gets a definate mention. I have been working on something of a blackjack book that does not give up any secrets or even tells you how to play. Just a group of stories about things I have seen or experienced during my years on the tables. Humorous to disasterous (I like the humorous best), just Tales From the Felt.

ihate17

I'd buy the book. I already have a whole bunch of stories like that, and you have been around the game much longer than I have so you must have some doozies...

 

[sagefr0g]

Supercoolman
Thank you for the explaination though I heavily did suspect that this guy was in a different reality than I was and your post confirmed this for me.

Anyway, when I eventually do write my book, this guys gets a definate mention. I have been working on something of a blackjack book that does not give up any secrets or even tells you how to play. Just a group of stories about things I have seen or experienced during my years on the tables. Humorous to disasterous (I like the humorous best), just Tales From the Felt.

ihate17

put me on the list. sounds great.

 

[ThunderWalk]

Basic Stuff

You could have just said that Basic Strategy calls for a player to hit a soft hand on a dealer's 10.

 

[azbetsgonewild]

Scott H. posted I think on the VooDoo forum that cardcounters can not control the cards. Pretty much a true statement I thought but a ploppy super moron told me different last night.

I am sitting at first base with another player who is playing two hands on the other end of the table. I am dealt soft 18, the ploppy has 14 and 15, and the dealer has a ten up. I hit my soft 18 and luck out hitting a 3. The other player stays on both his stiffs, while the dealer turns a 6 for 16, hits a 4, pays me and takes the guys money. He then looks straight at me and actually states, "if you did not hit your 18 the dealer would have busted!" Of course I tell him the dealer would have gotten my 3 and beat us both since you stayed on your junk. His reply, "Oh no, different cards would have come out of the shoe if you did not hit"

I never knew I could do that, but I did know that some people are just that dumb.

Guy storms off calling me an idiot and the dealer, a pretty young lady of perhaps 25, says to me very quietly, "someday I think I am going to write a book about the things said on blackjack tables but no one would believe half of it."

So to Scott H, I guess I can control the cards and have a certifiable witness to the fact.

ihate17

Typical 'I lost my money and its everyone elses fault' attitude of the dumbass player. I could look across the table and see all sorts of plays that they 'could' have made which would have netted a win. I have no control over anything but my own actions, and when I am at the table I care nothing about anyone else, I am not here to make sure that everyone else wins, I am only here to make sure I win. If people want to get bent about it, then they can kiss my ass, most of them barely have the brain power to tie their own shoes anyways.

I had one guy yell at me for splitting 6's against a dealers six, I proceeded to win both hands, and I said 'i must be doing something right becuase my stack is growing and yours is not' LMAO I really wanted to slap the guy in the face, because he was running around saying how 'all of the players in the casino were stupid'

 

[ScottH]

You could have just said that Basic Strategy calls for a player to hit a soft hand on a dealer's 10.

Against a 10 you hit soft 18 or lower, not any soft hand.

 

[shadroch]

You don't hit your soft 11s?

 

[ThunderWalk]

Against a 10 you hit soft 18 or lower, not any soft hand.

I should have been more precise. I just assumed the point that players should stand on all variations of 19 and 20 because that's also Basic Strategy.

 

[ihate17]

Basic strategy means what to this guy?

You could have just said that Basic Strategy calls for a player to hit a soft hand on a dealer's 10.

If I do state that BS says to hit soft 18 vs 10, I would also have to explain to him that he should also have hit his stiffs vs the dealer 10. We are now getting into a long conversation with a guy who actually believes that the one solitary card that just so happens to be sitting on the top of the shoe, will change depending upon who takes the hit.
Perhaps this changes and it only works in December during a new moon or on Sundays that are odd numbers, but I fear that trying to explain basic strategy to this person would bring some amazing answers.

Second thought, perhaps I should have because most likely this thread would be then based on even more ridiculous stuff than he first provided. Or he could have given me the pat answer about basic strategy I have heard thousands of times, "basic strategy is something invented by the casinos to make you lose more."
I do enjoy helping someone who wants to improve their results, but there is not jo in trying to help someone who has absolutely no interest in getting help or believes that you could provide it anyway.

ihate17

 

[ScottH]

I should have been more precise. I just assumed the point that players should stand on all variations of 19 and 20 because that's also Basic Strategy.

I figured you knew that, just making it clear for anyone else that doesnt know BS.