Shout out to NORM

[ZenKinG]

You're a stand-up guy. You must live a miserable life. You ban people, give them a date until the ban clears, then retract the ban date and make it private without reason. I served my time at your pathetic forum and you keep me banned. Must suck to look at yourself in the mirror each day knowing how immoral you are. You now remove my thread when i asked for a reason why you did what you did and i dont know if you ended up replying to it or not, but the thread is gone. I dont need your little pathetic forum.

You're what, 70+ now, and act like a child. If you banned me permanently because I made new handles while being banned, I hope you know that I only created new names after you changed my ban to 'private' without any explanation. Your forum is a joke and could've used someone like me that's an actual successful counter instead of all the fake players on your site.

 

[bjarg]

I dont need your little pathetic forum.

Sure as hell doesnt look like it.

 

[ZenKinG]

Sure as hell doesnt look like it.

Doesn't matter one iota to me. The only people who lose are norm and the people who post there. That forum is full of fake players that probably have never won more than 5k+ from playing blackjack straight-up or logged more than 100+ hours. They could've used someone like me. Their loss, not mine. Hope they have fun with their super duper level 10 counts and side counting aces on their feet for an extra 10 cents in expected value per hour with no impact on standard deviation or N-zero.

I called out tarzan long ago about his system and told him and others that it was useless for 6-8 deck games and everyone doubted me. Years later, they run sims on it and guess what, the king was right yet again, his system doesn't do anything. Experience and knowledge of the game (something many posters on there don't have) would've told you this. It all comes down to the frequency distribution of the card denominations that are in deficit or surplus. The frequency of huge deficits or surpluses will never occur in such a great frequency to offset the gains that the information could be used upon. When those huge deficits and surpluses in card denominations do occur, you're not even guaranteed to win that current hand. You would need a huge frequencies of huge deficits and surpluses in certain cards to make it pay-off in the long run and make it worthwhile. This is why the results from his tarzan count come out to what they come out to.

 

[KewlJ]

Just a couple comments.

I disagree that the forum mentioned is full of fake players. There are a number of legitimate, successful players. What I do agree is that the forum is dominated by 3 or 4 players that are problematic, one of whom has over 12,000 (long) posts, full of BS and false claims about a super duper count and when Don finally was allowed to call him out (where others had not been allowed), the guy changed his story to that he hadn't even been talking about blackjack. Unfortunately these 3-4 posters drown out any legitimate successful members and dominate most discussions.

Now about Tarzan's count. You say "years later they run sims and his system doesn't do anything". I was under the impression that Tarzan's count couldn't accurately be simmed, so who is "they" and where can I find results of these sims?

 

[LC Larry]

I love the "it can't be simmed" excuse. If that's true, how the hell do they know it works long term???

 

[KewlJ]

I love the "it can't be simmed" excuse. If that's true, how the hell do they know it works long term???

It is my understanding that Tarzan has been playing this "count" successfully for many years, even decades, even as he worked on it and tweaked it. Tarzan has enough credibility with me that I don't question his results or IF the count works. But your point is valid that without some sort of accurate method of comparison (sims are the standard), how can the claims made be substantiated and the extend of benefits or improvements over other methods be determined?

My second issue is that if some sort of benefit/improvement was confirmed, how many players really have the ability to learn and play it efficiently enough to realize such benefit. I mean Tarzan has invested decades into this. So even for the few that have the ability there is going to be a pretty big investment as far as time needed, and I suspect quite the learning curve. And in the early part of that curve and playing period, mistakes are going to be a huge factor. And who knows how long before a player not named Tarzan, gets that under control.

In other words, IF the benefits of this method can be definitively confirmed, I think the number of players able and willing to make that investment in time and energy is so small, that it is a disservice to even be discussing that methodoly in the general section of a forum. I have always thought that discussion should be limited to some sort of advanced section or area.

 

[Stevel96a1]

Ouch Zenking, there seems to be alot of trolling around these forums lately with Sidthesquid and now Zenking calling out Mr Norm? =/ SMH Norm is a great man and accomplished so much

calling out his age seems to be a personal attack in my opinion maybe you should cool it Zenking, 5k is nada, i won 12grand in video poker last year vegas is awsome! love those FPDW

 

[SplitFaceDisaster]

Just a couple comments.

Now about Tarzan's count. You say "years later they run sims and his system doesn't do anything". I was under the impression that Tarzan's count couldn't accurately be simmed, so who is "they" and where can I find results of these sims?

Link below to the page that has the sim results:

https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/showthread.php?39963-Further-Results-a-chance-to-go-full-retard-so-Norm-can-close-another-thread

 

[KewlJ]

Thank you SFD.

I didn't even know there was multiple variations or levels of the Tarzan Count. So based on the results posted, to me, it looks like an increase or improvement in the range of Hi-opt2 ASC. That seems to be the comparison right?

I don't know that I would phrase it as Zenking did, but to me that seems to not measure up to all the hype of several years. Seems like just another count discussion...just how much improvement in real life play and is that really worth it? These count discussions and debates and certainly implementation of new counting methods, just seems like rehashing the 70's and 80's, when all the different counts were coming out. I just don't see a need to re-invent the wheel.

Without getting into a count debate / discussion, any player looking for an improvement in results, there are things you can do that make a much bigger difference than switching counts. Winning blackjack via card counting really has little to do with what count a player plays. To quote Richard Munchkin "what count a player plays is one of the least important decisions he makes."

 

[SplitFaceDisaster]

Thank you SFD.

I didn't even know there was multiple variations or levels of the Tarzan Count. So based on the results posted, to me, it looks like an increase or improvement in the range of Hi-opt2 ASC. That seems to be the comparison right?

No problem. Yeah I think they just used Hi-Opt II w/ and w/out an ASC because those two had the highest SCORE of any count system. I have tremendous respect for the guy for coming up with it and being able to do it. The biggest advantage apparently is that some of the deviations look like ludicrous plays and would make you look idiotic on a skills check. If you`re spreading big though, I wonder how much that would even matter at some stores. You might get backed off anyway. As for what`s already been said in this thread, I completely agree that the time investment into learning something so difficult (if the person trying to learn it even has the intelligence to be able to do it) would be so gigantic that it probably wouldn`t be worth it. Unless you`re already a high stakes pro maybe. To each their own. As far as I know, he hasn`t said whether he`ll ever release the system anyway, so I guess at this point it doesn`t even matter.

 

[Dummy]

Half the issue with being a counter is getting away with it in the casino. There are many ways you can accomplish this. But gaining longevity while hiding in plain sight when using information creatively has its value. Nobody seems to want to recognize that value when looking at Tarzan's count. To those that play a lot there is more value in increasing how long you can get away with playing before you become hot than small difference in EV that different counts provide.