Shuffling Your Feet

[kewljason]

Do you support yourself by playing negative ev hands? If you do you should start worrying cause your not going to in the game for long.
If you are back counting (forget walking away just now) and you don't enter play until you reach a positive expectation the actual number of hands played per hours will be very low - this would lead some to believe that the game they are playing is worse than it really is. When talking about hands per hour, you include hands played at a disadvantage, if you have simple stood behind and watched a negative round being played (w/o risking your money on a bad situation) you can still consider this round in your stats for a hand played - i.e. this has not been wasted time, you've simply not invested in a negative count and instead chosen to sit out the round. Playing like this you would still get the 100 odd hands per hour it's simply that you only invested in 10-20 or so of them. Rounds spent watching and waiting still carry worth.

RJT.

I agree that playing only positive EV hands would increase win rate, but you would play very few hands per hour and spend most of your time waiting. My style of play is play of the top and wong out of neg counts of -1 or less, so while yes I am playing a limited number of hands at very small negative EV, I am playing more hand and more importantly many more shoes per hour that have the potential to go positive. (more opportunities at the big bet, positive EV hands)


You will stand and back count, not wagering, but by your definition "playing" three shoes. The first two shoes, the count stays nuetral or negative and you never enter. 2/3 of the way through the third shoe count and EV is positive enought to enter. You get in 3 hands before the count retreats back to nuetral. You have spent an hour back counting 3 shoes and have actually wagered on three hands.

I will start a shoe, when the TC goes -1, instead of just waiting for 20 minutes for the next shoe, because most likely the count isn't going to go positive enough during that shoe for you to enter, I move to the next table or pit where 60 seconds later I am starting another shoe. If that shoe goes negative, a few minutes later, I am beginning yet another shoe. So during the course of an hour I have begun 10-12 shoes. If 1/3 goes positive, each yeilding 3 hand that I can place a high bet on (same ratio as your game, just so we are comparing apples to apples), I am playing 9-12 big bet hands vs your 3. This will by far make up for the limited number of negative EV hands I play and greatly increase my earnings per hour. So yes, by my way of thinking and style of play, time spent waiting or "betting 0" is wasted time, not earning me money.

 

[RJT]

I agree that playing only positive EV hands would increase win rate, but you would play very few hands per hour and spend most of your time waiting. My style of play is play of the top and wong out of neg counts of -1 or less, so while yes I am playing a limited number of hands at very small negative EV, I am playing more hand and more importantly many more shoes per hour that have the potential to go positive. (more opportunities at the big bet, positive EV hands)


You will stand and back count, not wagering, but by your definition "playing" three shoes. The first two shoes, the count stays nuetral or negative and you never enter. 2/3 of the way through the third shoe count and EV is positive enought to enter. You get in 3 hands before the count retreats back to nuetral. You have spent an hour back counting 3 shoes and have actually wagered on three hands.

I will start a shoe, when the TC goes -1, instead of just waiting for 20 minutes for the next shoe, because most likely the count isn't going to go positive enough during that shoe for you to enter, I move to the next table or pit where 60 seconds later I am starting another shoe. If that shoe goes negative, a few minutes later, I am beginning yet another shoe. So during the course of an hour I have begun 10-12 shoes. If 1/3 goes positive, each yeilding 3 hand that I can place a high bet on (same ratio as your game, just so we are comparing apples to apples), I am playing 9-12 big bet hands vs your 3. This will by far make up for the limited number of negative EV hands I play and greatly increase my earnings per hour. So yes, by my way of thinking and style of play, time spent waiting or "betting 0" is wasted time, not earning me money.

KJ - the example above wasn't what i advocate, it was a simplified example to illustrate why a watched hand is as good as a played one. Of course you find a fresh shoe when the TC drops beyond a certain point, but you can still consider the hands you watched before that point as hands played as far as your hands per hour stat is considered.

RJT.