side count ace ?
- Thread starter beyondbj
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Southpaw
Well-Known Member
The ace, in many cases, is better to be counted as a small card (positive value) for playing decisions (although there are a few cases when it is proper to consider it as a big card, such as for doubling 8-10, splitting high card pairs, and higher soft doubles). For most cases, though, it is better to consider it is as a small card for playing decisions. However, the ace is always counted as negative (when it is counted), and this lowers your playing efficiency; a high-count caused by an extremely ace-rich deck would not deter you from hitting stiffs and would make you less likely to surrender, although your high-count would make you want to do otherwise. Moreover, you are counting the ace as if it were a 10-card for insurance decisions, which is also faulty.beyondbj said:
There are such things as multi-parameter tables, which tell you how to modify your RC for playing decisions based on ace-density. However, I don't think anyone at all still uses these, as this technique is about as antiquated as single-deck games with ES that are dealt to the last card.
Generally speaking, if you can perform the ace-density calculation (or use an overlapping second count, as recommended by Snyder), the gain is substantial. However, for some this may be difficult to do with precision, and their efforts may be better used doing other advanced techniques.
Best,
Spaw
creeping panther
Banned
Beyond
CP
In my Hi-LoLo count the ACE side is used just for betting purposes, and just very few deviation plays. Using it this way in SD and DD really rocks the casinos world.:grin:beyondbj said:
CP
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
whooooowhat?
:joker::whip:
good cards
What?Southpaw said:
:joker::whip:
good cards
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Snatch This Pebble From My Hand
Doesn't the Zen count semi consider the A? An excellent idea and possibly the best way to consider the A because you are only using one count! Probably an excellent count for someone who plays about 50%-50% hand held vs shoes, even more so if they limit their spreads. I would think it is one of the stronger hand held counts, when considering no side counts. So if one plays half or more of their time hand held games then a form of Zen is probably the way to go.
I like higher level counts, one gets extra value. However, side counting A's means 2 counts but not twice the return.
Zengrifter, isn't now about when you mention your? count?
:joker::whip:
good cards
Doesn't the Zen count semi consider the A? An excellent idea and possibly the best way to consider the A because you are only using one count! Probably an excellent count for someone who plays about 50%-50% hand held vs shoes, even more so if they limit their spreads. I would think it is one of the stronger hand held counts, when considering no side counts. So if one plays half or more of their time hand held games then a form of Zen is probably the way to go.
I like higher level counts, one gets extra value. However, side counting A's means 2 counts but not twice the return.
Zengrifter, isn't now about when you mention your? count?
:joker::whip:
good cards
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Whhhhhhhhhhatwho
:joker::whip:
Noble A Hunter
HI LO already counts the A for betting. Unless, you are doing something else with the info?creeping panther said:
:joker::whip:
Noble A Hunter
zengrifter
Banned
Yes, my grift-poser count. zgblackjack avenger said:Zengrifter, isn't now about when you mention your? count?
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
whoooooooooowhattttttttwhooooooooo
good cards
:joker::whip:
I was thinking ubz II ?zengrifter said:
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Southpaw
Well-Known Member
I'm not certain what you're trying to say here BJA. I don't side-count aces (in fact, I play Zen), nor do I advocate it. However, the gain from being able to side-count aces (without error) is substantial, especially in pitch games or cases where surrender is available.blackjack avenger said:
However, as I said before, one's concentration may be better put to use doing other things at the table. In fact, now that I have been getting into ST'ing, I somewhat wish that I played Hi-Lo, instead of Zen.
SP
creeping panther
Banned
Sp
No, I use Hi-LoLo in pitch games.
CP
SP,Southpaw said:
No, I use Hi-LoLo in pitch games.
CP
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Semantics
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good cards
We agree here. With an A side count, for keeping 2 counts one does not get twice the value, far less. As one plays against more decks the advantage of keeping a side count of A's drops greatly.Southpaw said:
:joker::whip:
good cards
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
A Reckoning of A's
If you count the A as -X in your primary count, you are already counting it for betting! Keeping an A side count for betting is redundant and incorrect! The effect of removal EOR of an A and 10 is about the same for betting! If you try to use an A side count for playing, it is not worth very much! Wong took the A side count playing indices out of Pro Bj for Halves and Hi lo because they were about worthless!
Hi Op II does not count the A, so it is a very good count for playing hands or PE. Though not necessary, when you keep an A side count with HI OP II it is used for betting! Hi opt II is very strong when you do keep an A side count for betting because it is 2 counts.
In Summary:
A Reckoned Count
1. An A is -X it is being counted for betting.
An A side count for playing is very weak.
A Not Reckoned Count
2. An A is 0 the overall count is strong in playing hands.
Not necessary, an A side count for betting adds strength
Important points:
In the modern game when to bet is very important.
An A reckoned count is stronger in shoe games.
An A not reckoned count is stronger in hand held or deeply dealt hand held games.
To improve performance just pick a higher level count and forget the A side count. I don't know, Halves comes to mind!:devil:
but I am not biased
Not at all:joker:
If you count the A as -X in your primary count, you are already counting it for betting! Keeping an A side count for betting is redundant and incorrect! The effect of removal EOR of an A and 10 is about the same for betting! If you try to use an A side count for playing, it is not worth very much! Wong took the A side count playing indices out of Pro Bj for Halves and Hi lo because they were about worthless!
Hi Op II does not count the A, so it is a very good count for playing hands or PE. Though not necessary, when you keep an A side count with HI OP II it is used for betting! Hi opt II is very strong when you do keep an A side count for betting because it is 2 counts.
In Summary:
A Reckoned Count
1. An A is -X it is being counted for betting.
An A side count for playing is very weak.
A Not Reckoned Count
2. An A is 0 the overall count is strong in playing hands.
Not necessary, an A side count for betting adds strength
Important points:
In the modern game when to bet is very important.
An A reckoned count is stronger in shoe games.
An A not reckoned count is stronger in hand held or deeply dealt hand held games.
To improve performance just pick a higher level count and forget the A side count. I don't know, Halves comes to mind!:devil:
but I am not biased
Not at all:joker: