simple blackjack question, when to hit or stand? unorthadox edition

L

llmercll

Member
#1
#1
I've looked up some strategies and most of them mention when the dealer has x do this, and double down, etc.

I'm playing an online version that doesn't give me the option to double down, and doesn't shot me the opponents hand.

All I see are the 2 cards dealt to me and i choose to hit or stay, hoping to get around 21.

so I ask, what are recommended numbers where you would stop hitting and start staying, and things like that.

I understand the difference between soft and hard hands, and would just like to know what the best mathematical choice is for those tough situations (which for me would probably be getting a hand of between 14-16)
 
sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
llmercll said:
I've looked up some strategies and most of them mention when the dealer has x do this, and double down, etc.

I'm playing an online version that doesn't give me the option to double down, and doesn't shot me the opponents hand.

All I see are the 2 cards dealt to me and i choose to hit or stay, hoping to get around 21.

so I ask, what are recommended numbers where you would stop hitting and start staying, and things like that.

I understand the difference between soft and hard hands, and would just like to know what the best mathematical choice is for those tough situations (which for me would probably be getting a hand of between 14-16)
Click to expand...
check this link:
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php
 
L

llmercll

Member
#3
#3
ok so on a hard 17 or above you stay

on a soft 15 or above you stay

what about a hard 15/16? is math on my side for staying or hitting?

once again this is online and i figure every hand comes from a full shuffled 52 card deck, so there's no counting

Also, I can't use the link above because i cant see the dealers upcard, only mine, and only have the option to hit or stand, nothing else
 
B

BVUGrad2003

Active Member
#4
#4
no dealer's card?

If you can't see the dealer's up card, I hope you're not playing this game for money. And even without playing for money, there's really no reason to play this game, in my opinion.


llmercll said:
ok so on a hard 17 or above you stay

on a soft 15 or above you stay

what about a hard 15/16? is math on my side for staying or hitting?

once again this is online and i figure every hand comes from a full shuffled 52 card deck, so there's no counting

Also, I can't use the link above because i cant see the dealers upcard, only mine, and only have the option to hit or stand, nothing else
Click to expand...
 
L

llmercll

Member
#5
#5
no, it's not for money, I'm part of this game website and winning at blackjack gives you credits. which is why it's so simple

I'm just having trouble with 15's 16's 17's, they are in the middle and i really don't know if i should hit or stand
 
A

actuary

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
This sounds a lot like Pontoon (not Australian Pontoon.) Checkout http://wizardofodds.com/pontoon-rtg for some ideas as to how to play. From your description of the game it sounds like there are no payouts higher than 1 to 1, so I'd stick with the strategy for 2 cards no matter how many cards you have in your hand.
 
K

k_c

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
llmercll said:
I've looked up some strategies and most of them mention when the dealer has x do this, and double down, etc.

I'm playing an online version that doesn't give me the option to double down, and doesn't shot me the opponents hand.

All I see are the 2 cards dealt to me and i choose to hit or stay, hoping to get around 21.

so I ask, what are recommended numbers where you would stop hitting and start staying, and things like that.

I understand the difference between soft and hard hands, and would just like to know what the best mathematical choice is for those tough situations (which for me would probably be getting a hand of between 14-16)
Click to expand...
My Composition Dependent Combinatorial Analyzer Program computes comp dependent EVs and strategies for playing without knowledge of any dealer cards but I didn't build any mechanism into it to output them. Knowledge of dealer's up card is worth ~2% to player. Below is data for 1 decks and 6 decks:
Code: 
s17, comp dependent strategy, double any 2 cards, split 2-10 to 4 hands,
split aces once, no double after split, no surrender, splits use post-split
CD strategy (optimum CD strategy for first split hand is used for all split
hands), player loses only original bet to dealer BJ, player blackjack pays
3 to 2

[u]1 deck (full shoe CD strategy EVs)[/u]
Overall EV given knowledge of 1 dealer up card:  0.000418636 = +.04%
         versus 1:  -0.360218
         versus 2:  0.100175
         versus 3:  0.136162
         versus 4:  0.182274
         versus 5:  0.23397
         versus 6:  0.23985
         versus 7:  0.14562
         versus 8:  0.0544883
         versus 9:  -0.0438056
         versus 10:  -0.170768
Overall EV given knowledge of 0 dealer up cards:  -0.0211821 = -2.12%

[u]6 decks (full shoe CD strategy EVs)[/u]
Overall EV given knowledge of 1 dealer up card:  -0.00544565 = -.54%
         versus 1:  -0.341653
         versus 2:  0.0910041
         versus 3:  0.123708
         versus 4:  0.159377
         versus 5:  0.199134
         versus 6:  0.231132
         versus 7:  0.143338
         versus 8:  0.057263
         versus 9:  -0.0413121
         versus 10:  -0.173196
Overall EV given knowledge of 0 dealer up cards:  -0.0245777 = -2.46%
I'm working full time and don't have a lot of time now but if I get the chance I'll post the full shoe strategies for all 55 possible player 2 card hands. Obviously you would split aces and eights since these are split versus any possible up card. For starters, hit 10-2, 10-3, and 10-4. Stand on 10-5 and 10-6. Always stand on hard 17 or more.
 
Adm. Buckles

Adm. Buckles

Member
#8
#8
Create a Strategy.

I would say based on your description of the game,only your cards are shown, with no dealer and no other players, that you are playing a random computer based game. The optimal strategy for blackjack would not apply, nor would any other strategy conceived because they are based on probabilities with a dealer and other cards in play or already played. Optimal strategy for the game you describe would probably be similar to video poker strategy. Strategy for video poker is not based on the dealer or cards played but on how big the payout for each particular hand is and your probability of hitting that hand with the given set of cards. If you never see the dealer or other players cards they probably don't exist and you're just playing by yourself and the two cards you receive are the only two in play. Your strategy should be based on only those two cards and the probability of receiving more cards that help you get to 21.

To create a strategy for your game you need to answer some questions.
Do the payouts vary the closer you get to 21?

How many points do you get for a natural?

Is there a minimum point bet before every hand?

What is the maximum point bet?

Is the payout bigger if the maximum bet is out?

Are the cards you receive when you hit random or is there a set number of cards that the computer is pulling from?
 
L

llmercll

Member
#9
#9
here is a screenshot of what i see when i play...just to show how simple it is

(Dead link: http://hdimage.org/viewer.php?file=tya9yy1u2nyf229ijkl_bj.jpg) _
_


Now, I seem to bust A LOT. Even on like 12's 13's and 14's i still tend to draw a high number of 10's and bust myself.

I do the best when i get a starting draw of 18 19 20 0r 21

or when i start out low with either 2-8 or 10, many times 10 gets me a 20 because i seem to "hit" 10's or face cards more than anything else.

does this sound familiar? any ideas on how to improve my game or does one so simple just come down to luck?
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
llmercll said:
here is a screenshot of what i see when i play...just to show how simple it is

(Dead link: http://hdimage.org/viewer.php?file=tya9yy1u2nyf229ijkl_bj.jpg) _
_


Now, I seem to bust A LOT. Even on like 12's 13's and 14's i still tend to draw a high number of 10's and bust myself.

I do the best when i get a starting draw of 18 19 20 0r 21

or when i start out low with either 2-8 or 10, many times 10 gets me a 20 because i seem to "hit" 10's or face cards more than anything else.

does this sound familiar? any ideas on how to improve my game or does one so simple just come down to luck?
Click to expand...
I have no idea lol. Sounds like Buckles said, it ain't BJ.

Could it be so simple as to hit until the avg value of the remaing cards will give a total of under or over a 21?
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
There's still a dealer total right, even though you can't see it?

One consideration would be the 50/50 point where a hit would be as likely to bust as not bust.

But another consideration is what is the expected dealer output over every possible series, knowing nothing. Since the dealer will often have pat hands, you may need to hit the lower stiffs, but not the higher ones. But that's total guesswork on my part.
 
K

k_c

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
llmercll said:
here is a screenshot of what i see when i play...just to show how simple it is

(Dead link: http://hdimage.org/viewer.php?file=tya9yy1u2nyf229ijkl_bj.jpg) _
_


Now, I seem to bust A LOT. Even on like 12's 13's and 14's i still tend to draw a high number of 10's and bust myself.

I do the best when i get a starting draw of 18 19 20 0r 21

or when i start out low with either 2-8 or 10, many times 10 gets me a 20 because i seem to "hit" 10's or face cards more than anything else.

does this sound familiar? any ideas on how to improve my game or does one so simple just come down to luck?
Click to expand...
It looks to me from your screenshot that you know both dealer cards when it's time to make a decision. If that's the case you can use this strategy for a player edge of ~10%.

From the way your original question was worded it seems that you had no knowledge of any dealer cards when it's time to make a decision. If that's the case, use this strategy:
Code: 
[u]Splits[/u]
Split Aces, Sevens, Eights (both NDAS and DAS)

[u]Doubles[/u]
Double hard 11 or hard 10
Never double any soft hand

[u]Hard hand hitting/standing[/u]
Hit hard 14 or less; Stand on hard 15 or more

[u]Soft hand hitting/standing[/u]
Hit soft 17 or less: Stand on soft 18 or more

Dealer edge of ~2%
 
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