Spanish 21 vs Blackjack Index Play

[Sir Counts-A-Lot]

Let me preface this by saying I'm fairly new to counting and haven't had much time on the felt but have been studying like mad and hope to join the ranks of the great AP players on this site.

Anyway, my area offers Spanish 21 as well as blackjack and I have learned BS for both and have got my Hi-Lo count down pretty good. I am now at the point where I want to memorize index plays and just realized maybe their is a better way mentally for me to do this.

I have read most of Katarina Walker's book regarding SP21 and her use of beginning the running count at -24 for a 6 deck shoe etc... Is Spanish 21 BS essentially the right plays to make at a -4 TC for a blackjack game? I understand the rule differences will make some things different but is it a good rule of thumb that will simplify things for my index learning? What I mean to say is would learning what to do in blackjack at TC -3 the same as SP21 -3 and by the time the TC in a SP21 game gets to zero start playing blackjack BS?

 

[shadroch]

Lots of areas offer SP21,there are only a few that offer the version that is beatable. Are you near AC?

 

[Sir Counts-A-Lot]

No but I have been informed that there are casinos near me that offer a S17 Spanish 21 game. I'm interested in trying that over blackjack as I think there will be less heat and better opportunity to spread more.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

No, you must use SP21 strategy only, and you must use SP21 index plays. It does not just become a blackjack game at high counts, because of the auto-win on 21 rule, the multi-card double rule, and the double down rescue rule. These rules change the strategy just like the absence of 10's does.

 

[Brock Windsor]

Lots of areas offer SP21,there are only a few that offer the version that is beatable. Are you near AC?

Wait a second....I had been led to believe SP21 was very beatable by previous posts regarding KW's book? Is it only the S17 version that is beatable? What happened to an edge greater than blackjack? I havne't read her book but was expecting at least a %1 advantage the way it had been spoken of.
BW

 

[shadroch]

In the words of Flava Flav- "Don't believe the hype"

 

[21forme]

H17 games are beatable too, but not as beatable as S17 games. If the H17 games have redoubling, that helps.

Here's a list of the better games:
http://www.spanish21.com/goodlocations.php (Archive copy)

BTW, this list clearly isn't up to date as the Sands in AC is still listed.

 

[Knox]

I think the H17 redoubling game is actually supposed to be a little better than the S17 without redoubling. The one I have easy access to is the latter, and regardless pen is the key.

 

[moo321]

In the words of Flava Flav- "Don't believe the hype"

Please elaborate.

 

[mich hucknall]

Both S17 and H17 versions of SP21 are very beatable, as long as you have decent penetration... 85% or above - pretty standard on SP21 as the cut card measured against the top of the 6 decks minus the 10s is about 85%. The S17 is slightly better but there isn't much in it.

To answer your question....

Any normal BJ strategy play in SP21 is useless no matter what the count... it's a totally seperate game.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I think the H17 redoubling game is actually supposed to be a little better than the S17 without redoubling. The one I have easy access to is the latter, and regardless pen is the key.

It's all relative. If you play in Atlantic City SP21 is by far a better game than any kind of BJ offered there. If you play in Nevada you can surely find something better than the H17 SP21 games offered there. But if you are in Washington state, the H17 redouble SP21 looks real good.

 

[Kasi]

It's all relative. If you play in Atlantic City SP21 is by far a better game than any kind of BJ offered there. If you play in Nevada you can surely find something better than the H17 SP21 games offered there. But if you are in Washington state, the H17 redouble SP21 looks real good.

What do you think of a 2 deck H17 SP21 game with redoubling up to 3 times?

I had never heard of such a thing but I think I liked it lol.

No match bet either.

Any chance you know HA for that or whether using the indexes for an 8D S17 (AC) would be way off or whether using the 6D H17 redoubling BS would be the same for a 2 deck game with same rules?

I wasn't really prepared for it but I played-all for about 6 hours mostly heads-up and won a few hundred in a relatively unscientific way.

I pretty much was soon despised by the occasional player who would stop by along with the dealers who "knew" how to play lol.