Read that you should be able to count down a deck in about 25 seconds using a level I.. I've been at it for a little over 2 weeks and can count a deck in 32 sec on average using the zen count.. just wondering the speed in which I should atleast be able to hit in oreder to actually hit the tables.. and before I get flamed I know I'm not anywhere ready.. not planning on going to the casino until I have around another 3 or 4 months under my belt.. I've searched and couldn't find an answer..thanks
speed of counting level ii
- Thread starter TheJerr
- Start date
25 seconds
If you're talking about 1 card at a time, I'd say 30 seconds.
If you're counting by 2 cards at a time, 3 cards at a time, or just grabbing random clumps, then 25 seconds.
Counting down decks is good practice, but counting in play involves lots of cancellation of cards all over the felt, which counting down decks will not train you to do well.
I grabbed a pack this weekend and counted it down a few times, in pairs of cards: I was around 17 seconds.
I don't have a problem keeping up with lightning dealers these days, but counting down decks only got me halfway there. Things got much easier after the first 120 hours at the tables. Now I can sit with eyes crossed at 4:15 a.m., clinging to the edge of the table, and still follow the lightning dealer, even though I couldn't spell my own name at that hour. The human subconscious is a wonderful thing.
Dunno how to train for counting while drunk, though.
If you're talking about 1 card at a time, I'd say 30 seconds.
If you're counting by 2 cards at a time, 3 cards at a time, or just grabbing random clumps, then 25 seconds.
Counting down decks is good practice, but counting in play involves lots of cancellation of cards all over the felt, which counting down decks will not train you to do well.
I grabbed a pack this weekend and counted it down a few times, in pairs of cards: I was around 17 seconds.
I don't have a problem keeping up with lightning dealers these days, but counting down decks only got me halfway there. Things got much easier after the first 120 hours at the tables. Now I can sit with eyes crossed at 4:15 a.m., clinging to the edge of the table, and still follow the lightning dealer, even though I couldn't spell my own name at that hour. The human subconscious is a wonderful thing.
Dunno how to train for counting while drunk, though.
I'm in the same boat
I'm learning Zen as well. This week I got to the point where I'm comfortably in the 25 to 30 second range, counting down a deck, pushing various size clumps of 3 to 6 cards. I haven't had that much time to dedicate to this practice, but slowly I get faster. There's still tons of books I want to read, so I'm pacing myself on both fronts. I think the first time I counted down a deck with Zen I was at like 60 or 70 seconds and felt pretty dumb. But I can see how if I keep on practicing it should be feasable to get to under 20 seconds. I'm also drilling the hell out of the 77 index plays (or 85 counting some DAS/NDAS differences I decided to learn). In CV Blackjack, I like doing the flashcard drill for Index plays, with 2 to 3 cards (good for learning late surrender vs. hit/stand index plays), random bias, though generous time per decision, and see how many consecutive correct decisions I can make. I've been able to get to the low 500's.
I'm learning Zen as well. This week I got to the point where I'm comfortably in the 25 to 30 second range, counting down a deck, pushing various size clumps of 3 to 6 cards. I haven't had that much time to dedicate to this practice, but slowly I get faster. There's still tons of books I want to read, so I'm pacing myself on both fronts. I think the first time I counted down a deck with Zen I was at like 60 or 70 seconds and felt pretty dumb. But I can see how if I keep on practicing it should be feasable to get to under 20 seconds. I'm also drilling the hell out of the 77 index plays (or 85 counting some DAS/NDAS differences I decided to learn). In CV Blackjack, I like doing the flashcard drill for Index plays, with 2 to 3 cards (good for learning late surrender vs. hit/stand index plays), random bias, though generous time per decision, and see how many consecutive correct decisions I can make. I've been able to get to the low 500's.
20 seconds or less
That is what you should strive for. But as friendo stated that only gets you part way. You will have to go to a casino and practice backcounting some tables or find a cheap game and pay for some practice time. Like everything worth ataining in life, it will take hard work and dedication. Practice, practice, practice.
That is what you should strive for. But as friendo stated that only gets you part way. You will have to go to a casino and practice backcounting some tables or find a cheap game and pay for some practice time. Like everything worth ataining in life, it will take hard work and dedication. Practice, practice, practice.
This is probably just me, but I found the whole counting-down-a-deck-in-25-seconds exercise to not really be helpful. There was too much of a difference between it and actual casino play. Now, don't get me wrong, if you're just starting out and can't do it in, let's say, under a minute, then it's clear you need to stop everything else and work on being able to identify cards quickly, but if your time is approaching the result, there's no need to keep on pushing if you're close enough.
If I might be so bold, try this little program. It's much more similar to what you'd actually be encountering in casino play. Curiously enough, I perform better on that than I do counting down a deck.
If I might be so bold, try this little program. It's much more similar to what you'd actually be encountering in casino play. Curiously enough, I perform better on that than I do counting down a deck.
Did not know you should have trouble with lightning fast dealers. They may decide the speed at which they are played, but you ultimately havethe decision. Take a few extra seconds to sweep the table and show the dealer that what he does and how fast he does it has no effect on your counting ability.
I want them going full speed: time is money, and the more hands I get in an hour, the more money I make.
If they're blasting through the shoe, it means I'm heads-up or with at most one other player. I want as many hands as I can get before additional players joint the table.
If I can get 300 hands per hour, I'll take it.
If they're blasting through the shoe, it means I'm heads-up or with at most one other player. I want as many hands as I can get before additional players joint the table.
If I can get 300 hands per hour, I'll take it.
No, you are not alone AR Nick. For a few years now, I have been saying this is overrated and does not simulate or prepare you for actual play. I have never counted down a deck in my life. A better way to practice is a good game simulator, even the one on this site, although I prefer one with more players. Or even the old standard dealing out hands on the kitchen table (or BJ table for those of us that have one :eyepatch
Both of these methods more accurately simulate actual play, plus they allow you to practice both counting skills and index recall skills at the same time, just like when you are playing.
I have always wondered where this number of 25 seconds to be proficent came from. I think that is overrated. As long as you can keep up with the dealer you are fine and you know what, if initially you can't keep up with the dealer. No problem. The dealer can only go as fast as the slowest player.
Sometimes I like to intentionally slow down a quick dealer just to annoy them. :laugh:
Both of these methods more accurately simulate actual play, plus they allow you to practice both counting skills and index recall skills at the same time, just like when you are playing. I have always wondered where this number of 25 seconds to be proficent came from. I think that is overrated. As long as you can keep up with the dealer you are fine and you know what, if initially you can't keep up with the dealer. No problem. The dealer can only go as fast as the slowest player.
Sometimes I like to intentionally slow down a quick dealer just to annoy them. :laugh:
nothing wrong with standards
A deck in 25 to 30 seconds shows a level of proficiency. Does not mean your ready to take on the world. It's just a step.
Perhaps this standard is mentioned in one of the main books. If mentioned by either:
Griffin
Qfit
Sch
Snyder
Wong
Or one of the other considered authorities then should probably listen
One wants to overlearn under many conditions due to the distractions of the casino environment and the stress of betting:
1 card at a time
Multiple cards
Fanned deck
Scanning
Why overlearn? Well, its up to you its only your money:grin:
A deck in 25 to 30 seconds shows a level of proficiency. Does not mean your ready to take on the world. It's just a step.
Perhaps this standard is mentioned in one of the main books. If mentioned by either:
Griffin
Qfit
Sch
Snyder
Wong
Or one of the other considered authorities then should probably listen
One wants to overlearn under many conditions due to the distractions of the casino environment and the stress of betting:
1 card at a time
Multiple cards
Fanned deck
Scanning
Why overlearn? Well, its up to you its only your money:grin:
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Speed of Counting
It's always a plus to practice in different ways. One card flipping at a time, two cards face up, three cards, or even spread the cards over the table. But most imporantly, use a method of practice that will check your skills for accuracy. It won't do you any good to be rabbit quick if your making any mistakes along the way. Therefore, I strive to maintain accuracy as I develop my speed. BOL to you...
It's always a plus to practice in different ways. One card flipping at a time, two cards face up, three cards, or even spread the cards over the table. But most imporantly, use a method of practice that will check your skills for accuracy. It won't do you any good to be rabbit quick if your making any mistakes along the way. Therefore, I strive to maintain accuracy as I develop my speed. BOL to you...