Speedcount

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#2
Yup...

...it's a less effective version of the hi-low (which can be bought for $14). It is designed for people who are either too dumb to use KO or don't know how useless it is. Although I've heard that it is not completely bogus (I haven't actually seen it myself), it is simply too weak to actually produce any decent profit.

It would make much more sense to spend $14 for the hi-low and use the other $886 to start a back-counting bankroll, but most ploppies don't know that.

-Sonny-
 
#5
I have heard from a friend who took the course....

...that the speed count is viable for use at playing black jack. The problem is that it is a overpriced course for something that still takes intellectual discipline. Their are many simple counts that are equal in strength. The Ko Count is very simple if a person cant learn to use it then they should not be playing blackjack. Eight bills is a lot of money for a little amount of info! Aspiring counters should beware!
 
#6
I have taken the class

I have taken the class and can say that it does work. It is not as powerful as Hi-Lo or K-O but it is so simple that you will not make any mistakes.

I think it is good for those who are beginner counters or who have never counted. I personally had never counted before the class. I was playing in the casino immediately after class ended. I have since played many times and have won significantly more than the cost of the class. So it was worth it for me.

Even though the performance is less than the others, there is built in cover and you will be rated as a bad player, allowing for better comps than a good player. Since there is not a common knowledge of the method, there is less chance of being detected.

You can play longer also since it is so easy you will not get fatigued and you can actually have fun.

I am not a shill for the Speed Count people. I am just a player. This has gotten me into the world of counting. I intend to learn more sophisticated methods but would probably not even have entered into the couting world (thinking it was too hard and not worth the grind) if not for Speed Count.

Hope this helps.
 
#8
Obvious shill post

"I have since played many times and have won significantly more than the cost of the class."

I doubt if playing "many times" is a statistically high enough sample of hands to mean anything. You probably could have played straight basic strategy and had an almost as good chance to come out ahead.

If you don't realize the above, or weren't told this in your course, then it just shows what a scam it is.

Just think if you had spent $20 on a KO or HiLo book, instead of $800 for the course, how much more you would be ahead.
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
#9
Speed count.

Does the price include air fair,hotel,comps,etc? If so,maybe not so bad of a deal.

What count system is this close to?

Do you simply count fewer cards,estimate, or eliminate true counts?

What bet spread do they recommend?

Has the system been proven by simulators,if so ,by whom?

Thanks,
Tom
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#11
What my t-shirt tells me

> It is not as powerful as Hi-Lo or K-O but it is so simple that you will not
> make any mistakes.

Dude, nothing can be easier then KO! If you can't handle KO or Hi-Low then you will never be good enough to win money anyway. Why waste your obviously limited brain cells with a virtually ineffective system?

> I have since played many times and have won significantly more than the cost
> of the class.

Let me get this straight, this system is so easy that anyone can use it and it will immediately bring me great wealth? *cough* *cough* *SCAM!* *cough*

> Even though the performance is less than the others, there is built in cover

Yeah, the pit will be able to tell that you are a losing player right away! Unfortunately, you ARE one!

Let's face it, with such high variance anything under a 1% advantage is pretty much a losing strategy.

> Since there is not a common knowledge of the method, there is less chance of
> being detected.

Also, since the system is so weak you will recognize very few advantageous opportunities. Although your win rate will be fairly small, this has the added cover of a small and infrequent bet spread. Conversely, you could use a good system and raise your bet on every OTHER high count. This is what is known as the "shooting yourself in the foot" cover play.

> You can play longer also since it is so easy you will not get fatigued and
> you can actually have fun.

Fatigue is more a result of boredom or lack of sleep. Enough practice with ANY system should keep the mental fatigue to a minimum. I use Hi-Opt II. Although very long sessions (4-6 hours) do cause me fatigue, it is more from the casino atmosphere (smoke, constant sitting, drinking, darkness, etc.) and not from "thinking too much."

> I am just a player.

My t-shirt says that too!

> This has gotten me into the world of counting. I intend to learn more
> sophisticated methods but would probably not even have entered into the
> counting world (thinking it was too hard and not worth the grind) if not for
> Speed Count.

And it grew my hair back too!

I hardly think that an $800 seminar is a good way to bring the "average guy" into card counting. It seems like Wong's book ($14) would me much more accessible to most people, and just as simple.

Just my opinions...

-Sonny-
 
#12
Even better, Wong's site

Just go to BJ21.com, they give a complete High-Low lesson that is FREE. That site contains everything you need to be an accomplished low-level card counter, and once you go beyond low-level a whole lot of other educational options become viable.

So let's see: "Speed Count" costs $800 and is almost as good as High-Low. And a real High-Low education on BJ21.com costs $0. If you can't do this math, you can't do card counting. Maybe dice control is for you.
 
#13
OK. Think what you want

Had to change my user name since I was having trouble with my password.
OK. Think what you want (not directed to any one post). You are right my real play is not much and doesn't mean anything. I have played 10,000 hands on a computer counting program from Deepnet (up $9000 with $15 units), and also 5,000 hands using 6-7-8 software and have come out as well as the other computer players using ko and hi-lo. Maybe this is not enough also. As I stated, I do not intend to continue with Speed count. I am learning the others. All i am saying is that this got me started. Millions of sims have have been performed, you can check it out. I am not a shill. I don't care what you do. I did not start this thread, I just reponded with my personal input. You can interpret how you like.
It is clear that this system is not for the good players on this site. I am not promoting it. By the way as far as making larger bets, it tends to be more agressive than hi-lo and ko (I observed watching the computer players). I do not believe this is a losing method as some have suggested, but you can make your own uniformed judgements. I do not blame you for your skeptisism (sp?). For me the price was no big deal. If you think it is too much then it is too much. You are right, I could have learned cheaper. However, I am happy I took the class and do not regret taking it.
 
#14
OK. Think what you want

OK. Think what you want (not directed to any one post). You are right my real play is not much and doesn't mean anything. I have played 10,000 hands on a computer counting program from Deepnet (up $9000 with $15 units), and also 5,000 using 6-7-8 software and have come out as well as the other computer players using ko and hi-lo. Maybe this is not enough also. As I stated, I do not intend to continue with Speed count. I am learning the others. All i am saying is that this got me started. Millions of sims hans have been performed, you can check it out. I am not a shill. I don't care what you do. I did not start this thread, I just reponded with my personal input. You can iterpret how you like. It is clear that this system is not for the good players on this site. I am not promoting it. By the way as far as making larger bets, it tends to be more agressive than hi-lo and ko (I observed watching the computer players). I do not believe this is a losing method as some have suggested, but you can make your own uniformed judgements. I do not blame you for your skeptisism (sp?). For me the price was no big deal. If you think it is too much then it is too much. You are right, I could have learned cheaper. I am happy I took the class and do not regret taking it.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#15
The juice just ain't worth the squeeze

Dude, you have to admit that this all seems incredibly sketchy. Here are a few "gems" I picked up from the website (these are ACTUAL QUOTES!):

"The casinos have never heard of this approach; have no one skilled in catching a user of this approach, and have not created any software or hardware to catch players using it."

Well, the casinos are aware of when they have the edge and when they don't. Standard card counting systems are 95-99% accurate at spotting when to raise your bet. If you are raising your bet when you have the edge they will catch you, case closed.

On the other hand, if your system has you raising your bets when you don't have the edge, you will not be playing a winning game. Which is it? Either way, this system is sub-par.

"Our revolutionary new method is so different, that it can't be modeled in any available software simulators."

Isn't that convenient. Now they are stealing John Patrick's sales pitch!

I'm sorry Mickey, but 15,000 hands isn't going to convince anyone here. We run at least several hundred million (often a few billion) hands before we expect to see accurate results. The variance and standard error of 15,000 hands is simply way too high.

"The math for the speed count is irrefutable. It works, and we'll show you a summary of the math to prove it..."

That sounds great! I can't wait to see it!

"You'll learn proper bet sizing based on your advantage and how to avoid what mathematicians call "risk of ruin""

Wow, it "avoids" risk of ruin too huh? That's a little too much for me to swallow. How can a system with a smaller edge (about 70% according to the author) also give you a smaller ROR? By definition wouldn't the variance be larger and a bigger losing streak more likely? The only way to reduce your ROR would be to use smaller units, which would also reduce your win rate. Not only are you getting less action, you are also keeping less of the action you are getting!

By the way, there is no way to "avoid" ROR there are only ways to decrease it to a manageable degree. There is no way to avoid variance, that's why they call it gambling.

"At the end of these two days, you will have the tools to get a verifiable, proven, mathematical edge over the casinos...you will have all the tools necessary to gain an immediate, verifiable, mathematical edge over the casino."

Still waiting for that "verifiable, proven, irrefutable" summary. Where are the "millions of sims" that Mickey mentioned? Oh wait, I forgot - this revolutionary system can't be simulated.

"Think of it, just $695 to learn a method that will give you a mathematically verifiable edge over the house for years to come; the easiest advantage method ever developed, "

Here's an even simpler system: put your money in a savings account. You can easily get 2% interest, which is better than this system will get. You will be making money much faster than you would if you were playing blackjack with it, so you would therefore be "beating the house" since they will never see a dime from you.

And finally, time for the "irrefutable, mathematically proven" summary they have been promising:

send checks or money orders to:
Frank Scoblete Enterprises, LLC

The bottom line is, this is WAAAAAY too expensive, WAAAAAY too weak and WAAAAAAY to over-hyped. I'm not saying it doesn't give you a small edge over the casinos, I'm just saying that it's not worth the money OR the brainpower. There are much cheaper ways to get much more reliable knowledge. There's no reason that it should cost $700 to get started in card counting, especially when the books are so cheap and websites like this are free.
 
#16
I'll repeat it one more time.

"I have played 10,000 hands on a computer counting program from Deepnet (up $9000 with $15 units), and also 5,000 hands using 6-7-8 software and have come out as well as the other computer players using ko and hi-lo. Maybe this is not enough also."

IF for $800 they didn't give you enough information and knowledge to know that 15,000 hands isn't or is enough, then you got ripped off. Most legit Blackjack books have a chapter or two devoted to statitics and what is a relevent number of hands to start forming conclusions.

PS. If your system is having you bet more than the HiLo player, than a lot of your gains are due to overbetting your advantage, and this leads to higher risk and greater chance of going broke in the long run.
 
#17
Jeez. I'm sorry I mentioned it

Fine you are all correct. Abraham, you make some good points, got me thinking. that's good. However, Dan Provost is a qualified mathematician and he has modified his simulation software to simulate millions of hands. So has Dr. Catlin (math professor at Umass). They do know how to do sims and they do know statistics. And isn't Henry Tamburin legit? Argue with them. Dan chose not to write a book but to teach it and license it instead. So what. It is his choice isn't it. Just because he wants to make money does not make it a scam. They never said it was better than hi-lo or ko or anything else, and also say it is not for currently good counters. How is that a scam. You should not attack something without knowing anything about it. Automatic Monkey ridicules it and then says isn't it just Ace-Five? He is not even close but still knows he is right.

I would like to ask who among you make a living at playing blackjack or even make say $100K a year. If not why not? You have it all figured out. So who are the pros flapping on this thread? With all that tax free income why the outrage over $800? I am curious to know your playing qualifications, not your paper analysis. You guys are always talking about getting backed off and trespassed. Well isn't that grand. You don't make a whole lot of money playing perfectly in your living room.

Sorry about the vent but I simply responded to a question about speed count and was ridiculed as being too stupid to learn KO. I have a masters in Engineering and understand Math very well thank you. Maybe i did jump at an overpriced method but I do not care about the money. It was fun for me and if that is what it took to get me started then so what.
 
#18
Good Points Sonny

I understand your points but why does a higher variance make you a loser? You just need a bigger bankroll right? And 70% of hi-lo is still positive. You just need to play a little more. What am I missing?

I did not say that it was a good way to bring an 'average guy' into card counting. I said it worked this way for me.

Larger bets are made while having an advantage according to the sims I saw. the only rebuttal there is to dispute the sims. that could be but I don not think that these simulations were fraudulent. Dr. Catlin's sims were indepenant of Mr. Provosts. He has no reason to lie. And he knows what he is doing.

You obvoiously do not have to accept it. I know it looks suspicious when they do not release it to the general public. But that is what they chose to do. It does not make it wrong.

You are right about avoiding the risk of ruin. They do not claim that in the course. They use the standard methods of ROR caculations and calculate bankrolls accordingly (even though the promotion you quoted seems to suggest otherwise),

Your 2% savings acount analogy is ridiculous. You know that we are talking % of betting $ not % per year as in a savings account. Big sifference.

I know 15,000 hands does not prove anything, I was just telling you what I did, I was not trying to mathematically prove anything.

For the record, I am still a skeptic and do not intend to bet the house on this system. I am learning other methods and intend to play them accordingly.
 

Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
#19
Mickey

doesn't post here and then he shows up. Agree. Shilly Wagger!! If I would sell you a car with 150K on it for $15 would you go and buy the same car with 300K on it for $500?? Only if you got duped into it by a used car salesman who offered you a free AAA membership with it.
 

Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
#20
I Told

Deep Net Dan to distance himself from the Speed Count, but he did the programming to test it. I wanted to take a look at the system and I got a yes if I sign a waver NOT to discolse what I had found and I had to drive out to Dan's to get it and listen to why it works etc. As an advantage player in all aspects of my life I took a pass. I like Dan but feel is has pulled the Canadian version of a Jerry Patterson on us. I have his Palm Pilot programs which are exceptional and highly recommended. If you want to make Dan happy, and use your money wisely, buy his Palm Pilot programs. THAT will teach you everything for around $30. Forget the scam artists who have put their hands up Dan's hole and made him into a snake oil pupet.

Punch and Judy anyone?? !;o> laugh
 
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