Splitting 4's

[cyclinggimpe]

I was at a table yesterday where a player asked players around him if he should split his 4's against the dealer's 5 or 6 (I can't remember what she had). Everyone was telling him not to split 5's or 4's ever. I said that you should or can if you want to split 4's against the dealer 5 or 6. They told me that I was wrong. So, when I later got a pair of 4's and the dealer had a 6, I split them and I got some weird looks. The same thing happened when I had a pair of 9's and the dealer had an 8. I decided to split them and the other players where saying "why did you split them, you already had 18!". The Basic Strategy chart I have says to split 9's if the dealer has 2-9 except for 7 otherwise stand.

Am I wrong to split them? I am only going by Basic Strategy for a 5 deck CSM game.

Also, when I have an Ace/7 against the dealers 9,10 or Ace, I most of the time will hit it and I get some groans happening at the table. Or with the Ace/7 the dealer has a 6 or lower, I'll double and I get the groans again. Am I wrong or right?

For some reason people think everyone else but themselves know how to play. Yesterday a guy beside me told me to double my Ace/8 and I said no, I'll stay with this hand. He was playing weirdly anyway. I told him nicely that I have my strategy and he has his strategy. He agreed and we joked about it. Everything was fine because we all at the table were friendly and having fun; no one got real upset. I have seen some people walk off in a huff when they kept losing and they blamed it on another player.

The funny thing about this table yesterday, these players that told the guy not to split his 4's were doubling when they had a 7 or 8. My strategy chart says to always hit 5 through 8 no matter what the dealer has. But, I didn't say anything to them unless they asked for my opinion. Then I would just say that I wouldn't but it was their decision. Or they wouldn't split their pair of 8's and end up busting.

Another thing that happened was I got a pair of 8's and split them and got another 8 and split again. I kept split until I had 4 or 5 hands and people were looking at me with stunned looks as if I was doing something wrong. I ended up winning all the hands.

I guess I was just at a table where people knew some of the strategies but not all?

 

[Mikeaber]

Actually, doubling a soft-19 against a dealer 6 is a correct play if the dealer hits soft 17's. You don't want to do it if there is a chance he has an Ace in the hole and has a "made hand" on a seventeen that he can stand on. Plaza in downtown has a double deck game where the dealer stands on soft-17. So, you wouldn't want to double down on a 6 it that casino.

Splitting 4's against a 5 or 6 is a good play if you can double after splitting...otherwise you are better off just hitting.

Hitting a soft-18 on 9-Ace is a good rule of thumb except in Single Deck where the dealer stands on soft-17. In that case, you stand if the dealer has an Ace.

Doubling a soft-18 on 3-6 and standing on 1, 7 & 8 is also correct with exceptions: If the dealer STANDS on soft-17 you stand on 2...otherwise double on it. If you have the ability to double against a 2-6, you do so, otherwise you stand. For instance, if you have taken a hit already and get a soft-17 and the dealer has a 6, you would stand rather than hit again. But if you have a soft-18 you should hit no matter what if the dealer has a 9-Ace showing.

Yes...you'll get some strange looks and coments when making those plays. Just as you will when splitting 7's against a dealer 7. Or standing on a pair of 9's when the dealer has a 7, but splitting when he has an 8 or 9. People think you've lost your mind....but they are just showing their ignorance of the correct Basic Strategy play.

I won a good sized bet last night by splitting 9's against a dealer 9. I ended up with three hands after the splits. I doubled on one and just took one card on the other two for two 19's. I won all three hands, but not before being told how stupid I was :whip:

 

[BAMA21]

There are always idiots willing to share their stupidity for free. Pay no attention to them. The objective in those splitting and doubling situations where the dealer is weak is to get more money on the table while you have an advantage. Splitting those fours gives you the chance to catch another small to medium card and then double. Most people don't understand dounble after split, which is why a lot of casinos can get away with not offering it.

 

[cyclinggimpe]

At the casino I go to you can split as many times as you want (as long as they are the same pairs) and you can double on anything after a split. The only exception to this is when you get a pair of Ace's; then you have just one card (and often I get another Ace!). The dealer hits a soft 17 (Ace/6) and stands on 17.

I thought with an Ace/8 and Ace/9 you always stand? So you wouldn't double on a 6 or lower.

I'm playing with a 5 deck CSM shoe (that's all we have up here from my understanding). And the dealer takes his second card after all the players have made their hands. (Canadian rules). Does this make any difference as to what strategy you would use?

 

[Mikeaber]

At the casino I go to you can split as many times as you want (as long as they are the same pairs) and you can double on anything after a split. The only exception to this is when you get a pair of Ace's; then you have just one card (and often I get another Ace!). The dealer hits a soft 17 (Ace/6) and stands on 17.

I thought with an Ace/8 and Ace/9 you always stand? So you wouldn't double on a 6 or lower.

I'm playing with a 5 deck CSM shoe (that's all we have up here from my understanding). And the dealer takes his second card after all the players have made their hands. (Canadian rules). Does this make any difference as to what strategy you would use?

ACE/8 or soft 19, you can double according to Basic Strategy, if the dealer hits soft 17's and is showing a 6.

I doubled a soft twenty (ace/9) against a dealer 6 at the Plaza last Fall. I had an ongoing battle with a favorite dealer there. We had been going at it for three straight days and she KNEW how I played. In fact, a couple of times, she would ask me to move from center table to one of the corners (1st or 3rd) when those positions came open. She would tell the rest of the table that those two positions pretty much dictated the flow of the hands. If 1st played slow, the rest of the table tended to drag their feet and she knew I had already made my decision as soon as I got one glimpse at her "up card." Anyway, we were playing really fast in the "pitch" Double Deck game and I just simply screwed up. I saw the soft 20 but even more, I saw her SIX and doubled down. She had a fit <LOL> I won the hand, but she told that story to every table I was at the rest of the week! But, she deferred any "play" questions she got from the other players over to me.

PS....at Plaza, it is wrong to double down on a soft 19 against a 6 since they stand on soft 17's. But it was like, 3am and I had indulged in more comp'd drinks than this tired old body should have indulged in.

 

[dbldown]

I'm starting to think these people don't read books

I think the same people who groan and whine about other players' play are the people who don't read up on blackjack. They are somewhat ignorant, yet they like blackjack, so they learn it secondhand from their loudmouth aunt, their frat buddies, or their old dad who proclaims "his way is the only way."

Here's something that happened to me:

I'm holding a 10,5.
My neighbor is holding a 10,5.
The dealer has a 9 showing.

The neighbor asks me, "Are you going to hit?"
I simply reply, "Yes."
The neighbor quickly says, "Well if you hit, I'm not going to hit."

Uh, CHECK PLEASE!

There are definitely a few screws loose in that brain!!!!!!

 

[cyclinggimpe]

I think the same people who groan and whine about other players' play are the people who don't read up on blackjack. They are somewhat ignorant, yet they like blackjack, so they learn it secondhand from their loudmouth aunt, their frat buddies, or their old dad who proclaims "his way is the only way."

Here's something that happened to me:

I'm holding a 10,5.
My neighbor is holding a 10,5.
The dealer has a 9 showing.

The neighbor asks me, "Are you going to hit?"
I simply reply, "Yes."
The neighbor quickly says, "Well if you hit, I'm not going to hit."

Uh, CHECK PLEASE!

There are definitely a few screws loose in that brain!!!!!!

I sat at a table like that this weekend also. I was asked by the guy in the middle if I was going to hit my 16 (dealer had a 10 or Ace) and I said yes so he didn't hit his 15. I was in the last spot, is that 3rd base? I busted and so did the dealer so this guy who stood on 15 won. He did this often; I would bust and he would win with his 15 or 16. He won so much money and I lost my first $100. I left this table and went to another where I won much more. But, in the future if someone does that to me again, I'll just go find another table. I'm not going to lose all my money just so others can make theirs.

 

[Mikeaber]

If it bothers you when someone hits or doesn't hit based on what you are going to do or have done, then by all means find another table. It can be annoying. But the reality is that no play that anyone else makes at the table whether correct or incorrect, can influence the outcome of your decision and the way the cards fall for or against you.

Hitting those "stiff" hands of 15 and 16 are really a closs call. Probabilities indicate that if you hit, you will have a 1% better chance of winning in the long haul than if you stand on them. I'm presumming of course that you are not counting.

With that said, and because it is such a coin toss situation.....try this. Look at the cards that are in play during THIS hand. If there are more Face Cards showing than low cards, then you might have a slight advantage in hitting. If there are more low cards showing, you might stand. You're probably going to loose anyway and that very slight indication of cards on the table might work to your favor.

Whatever the case...whatever the player next to you does should not have any impact on what you base your decision on.

I have to laugh when the dealer is showing a bust card and no one on the table should, by Basic Strategy, take a hit. Many times, some Einstein will look at third base and tell him that it is his responsibility to take a hit for the table because "everyone" knows that if no one hits, the dealer is going to draw out and the table will loose!

 

[BAMA21]

What other people do doesn't bother me in the slightest, nor do I give a rip whether or not they base their decisions on my play. But with that said, there are probably some good ways to handle idiots like the one you describe. Here are a few off the top of my head:

1. Simply say "I haven't decided yet" when he asks what you're going to do.

2. Tell him you want to see what card he gets before you make up your mind.

3. Tell him that if he wants to team up, one of you can hit and the other can stay, and you'll split the winnings, if any.

Some people are just such idiots.

 

[Mikeaber]

Best answer of all:

Well sir, since the person to your right has a deuce of clubs and the player on first base has a King of Hearts and the dealer's card is a club (or whatever happens to be showing that catches your eye), I'm going to hit. That is of course, unless you hit and draw a diamond. In that case I'll probably double down, but I'm not sure.

If you can do that with a straight face, then you'll have the poor guy so confused that he'll either shut up or leave the table. But I'd rather he stay. His type always amuse me.

 

[BAMA21]

Excellent answer.