Splitting nines

#1
Glad to find this forum. I'm not a complete newbie to the game but not a seasoned pro, either. Please tell me if I made the right move here.

I'm dealt two nines.

Dealer has a nine showing.

I split.

Guy at third base absolutely airs me out for making a stupid move, for giving up an 18, for not knowing how to play the game, yada, yada, yada.

I say nothing, get crappy cards on both nines and the dealer turns over a face card for 19. I lose both hands.

Guy at third base continues to grumble about me, even though he wins his hand. Again, I say nothing.

Did I make a wrong move by splitting?
 

Dopple

Well-Known Member
#3
I doubled A9 vs. 6 the other night and it worked for my max bet. Got the table ticked off and one lady left. They asked why I did it and I said: because it worked. The count was about +8.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#4
Dopple said:
I doubled A9 vs. 6 the other night and it worked for my max bet. Got the table ticked off and one lady left. They asked why I did it and I said: because it worked. The count was about +8.
If the count was high enough to warrent that play and it drove a lady from the table, then you got a TWOFER! Even higher EV. :)
 

Dopple

Well-Known Member
#6
I am glad you brought this one up because I was thinking about it the other night. I ran into the same situation but I flunked. Thanks for the post, I wont make the same mistake twice.
 
#7
Harley,

The average winning hand is 18 1/2 which really means it is 19, so you're not going anywhere with 18 against the nine and if you can improve it do so.

I play very conservatively and would not split them against the 10 and A, but I also don't split 9's against the dealers up card of 7 figuring he has 17.

Also, screw that guy on third base. Tell him to play his own cards and if he doesn't like it he can get up and leave.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#8
merpmerp,

You said: "The average winning hand is 18 1/2 which really means it is 19"

When the dealer is showing a NINE, his/her average hand is well above 19.
 

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#9
FLASH1296 said:
merpmerp,

You said: "The average winning hand is 18 1/2 which really means it is 19"

When the dealer is showing a NINE, his/her average hand is well above 19.
How do you figure? As far as I know having 19 makes the player a favorite against any dealer upcard.

So 4/13 times, they have 19. 1/13 times, they have 20. So therefore, to make the average hand WELL ABOVE 19, they would have to draw to 20 or 21 an impressively high percentage of time during those 6/13 times they get to draw.
 
#10
Harley

Harley2 said:
Glad to find this forum. I'm not a complete newbie to the game but not a seasoned pro, either. Please tell me if I made the right move here.

I'm dealt two nines.

Dealer has a nine showing.

I split.

Guy at third base absolutely airs me out for making a stupid move, for giving up an 18, for not knowing how to play the game, yada, yada, yada.

I say nothing, get crappy cards on both nines and the dealer turns over a face card for 19. I lose both hands.

Guy at third base continues to grumble about me, even though he wins his hand. Again, I say nothing.

Did I make a wrong move by splitting?
Harley, welcome.

Now as to that guy, I don't care how big or scary he is, put him in his place, don't let him insult you or show disrespect, if he wants to throw down let him throw the first then nail him...show you are a man and don't take ****. If I had been in your place there would have been a real problem.

CP
 
#11
FLASH1296 said:
merpmerp,

You said: "The average winning hand is 18 1/2 which really means it is 19"

When the dealer is showing a NINE, his/her average hand is well above 19.
Flash,

You and Blue can debate it (I agree with Blue that it's tough to get "well above"), but basically that just affirms what I was saying. If Harley has two nines against that nine his eighteen is worth squat, so he should split that.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
#12
I think Flash meant well above 18. But it doesn't matter. A dealer 9 is a strong hand, A player 18 is NOT a strong hand and is generally a loser against the 9, 10, and A. I can't think of a single scenario (with BS or just counting) where it wouldn't be correct to split 9,9 vs 9. My 2 cents.

-db
 

JulieCA

Well-Known Member
#13
I just got back from Palm Springs, playing a couple days at The Spa.

There's a woman who's a regular there who kept having a fit and telling me all about what "you never do!"

This included: never split 9s, never split 2s or 3s, never hit 12 against a dealer 2 or 3, never hit A7 against ANY card... and on it went.

I try and ignore this type of behavior as much as possible but there were a couple times I wanted to reach out and just smack her. I'm hoping she runs out of play money sometime soon.
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#14
Two ladies at a table in Vegas

JulieCA said:
I just got back from Palm Springs, playing a couple days at The Spa.

There's a woman who's a regular there who kept having a fit and telling me all about what "you never do!"

This included: never split 9s, never split 2s or 3s, never hit 12 against a dealer 2 or 3, never hit A7 against ANY card... and on it went.

I try and ignore this type of behavior as much as possible but there were a couple times I wanted to reach out and just smack her. I'm hoping she runs out of play money sometime soon.

Something so perfect I witnessed while watching another counter.
Sitting at first base is an excellent cardcounter with perhaps the perfect cover when the pit is male. She is tall, beautiful and was a college basketball player. Sitting at third base is a middle aged little lady who plays perfect basic strategy, does not count, is losing money and berates any player who does not play her way, yells at the dealers and has even complained about the pit to his boss.

The shoe is almost over and the count has gone to a horrid -5 but there is only one hand left. The counter at first base gets a total of 9, first base had a pat hand of 17 or 18 and the dealer is showing a 3. Playing a negative indice, first base does not double but takes a hit, gets a 3 and then hits a 9 for 21. Two other players stay as does third base. The dealer turns a 13 hits a 6 and takes everyone's money except first.

At that moment third base goes nuts. She is yelling at first base that if she had doubled, as she should have, the dealer would have busted and she cost her X and is an idiot of a player etc etc etc. And this goes on, the dealer is trying to quiet the woman and she turns on him and the pit is approaching the table. Very calmly, first base tells the woman, "give me your chips"! She answers with a loud "What!" Third base just smiles at her and tells her, "if you want me to play your way I certainly will but only with your money."
As the loud B word is being blasted by third as she storms away, the pit turns around laughing, the dealer is trying to hide his laugh and the guy next to third base tells her that he wished he had said that to the other woman earlier.

Now if it had been two guys there might have been fireworks in the parking lot, but the perfection and calmness of the response to me was just classic.

Did it bring attention to the counter one might ask? Probably but not in a way that would hurt her short term at that casino. She was a hero, she got a woman who was running off other players, and constantly complaining about the staff to leave.

ihate17
 

Albee

Well-Known Member
#15
Your move was correct......to split.

After that.....I would have started to yell.....c'mon baby....2....I need a 2!! And then asked the dealer....if I could have an ace if they don't have any two's :)

It really amazes me how some people come un-glued when THEY think they know all the correct moves.
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#16
The average dealer hand (assuming the dealer finishes his hand) with a nine up is 20. It's actually higher with a five up (21.02) since the dealer is more likely to bust. The average non-busted dealer hand (assuming the dealer always plays) is 18.9 for both. Counting hands where the dealer does not complete with heads-up (that is counting hands where the player busts,) the average is 21.02 for five up and 19.3 with nine up.


All of which is completely meaningless since what counts is not the average, but the median counting all hands of 22 and up as zero. That number is 19.
 

prankster

Well-Known Member
#17
James Caan once said "those who speak the loudest usually have the least to offer." It's never more true than at a blackjack table!:joker:
 

Nynefingers

Well-Known Member
#18
merpmerp said:
I play very conservatively and would not split them against the 10 and A, but I also don't split 9's against the dealers up card of 7 figuring he has 17.
I play the same way. I split 9s against any dealer up card other than 7, T, and A. But I don't do it because I "play conservatively", I do it because that's what basic strategy says to do. That's all that matters. Look at a basic strategy chart for your given set of rules, and make the correct play. As you play more and get better at counting, start learning index plays, but otherwise, trust in basic strategy.
 

tribute

Well-Known Member
#19
Harley2 said:
Guy at third base absolutely airs me out for making a stupid move, for giving up an 18, for not knowing how to play the game, yada, yada, yada.




Did I make a wrong move by splitting?
I had the same situation once. Other player at my table says, "I never split a winning hand!"
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#20
I just say that " … 18 is below average for the dealer. I'd rather have a 19 and I don't mind pushing by winning one hand and losing the other."

Those with I.Q.'s over 84 will agree. The rest will generally just shut up as they are too dumb to realize that they are stupid.

Of course, simply ignoring the clueless is generally the best course of action.
 
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