Spreading to 2 hands in shoe game

hawkeye

Well-Known Member
Sorry that I don't have all the books and info on this stuff near me, that's what I like this board for, you guys know these answers...


My situation: 6D, double anything, no re-split aces, hit soft 17, varying pen. I realize the game isn't ideal, but when the pen is good it's decent, and it's very close to where I live and there is no heat. So my opportunity costs to play are very low, I drive by multiple casinos with these rules on my daily commute.

My question: What's the point where spreading to two hands is a better idea than raising the bet on one? If I'm at the point in the count where I put out a 4-unit bet does it hurt to put out 2 hands at 2 units, or is 2 hands at 3 units better (150%)? Is there a point in the betting ramp where is becomes a better idea to spread to two hands?

I ask because I don't play all the time, very recreational. When I do get chances to go it's usually not at a low time, the tables are fairly full. The few times I've seen some good counts come through it seems like it would be better to spread to two hands earlier than normal because the amount of players eat through the hot shoe faster. That seem logical? I put it to the test this last wknd, spreading much earlier than normal at a half-full table, and it worked very well. Could be variance, that's why I ask.

No offense menat, but please save the "find a better game" speech. I've heard it, I understand, and I agree that there are better games. But I play for small stakes, for fun, when I can. So this is my game, and I'm interested in finding the best way to maximize this game.
 

johndoe

Well-Known Member
In general, the simple answer is you're better off playing two hands anytime you have an advantage, and there are other players at the table. This gives you more of the good cards, just like you said. The optimal combined bet is (about) 150% of whatever you would normally bet, but of course that's not required.

If you're playing heads up there's no need to spread to two hands.
 
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hawkeye

Well-Known Member
Ok, thanks for the reply.

So instead of one bet at 4x I should do two bets at 3x? That makes sense?

When I was testing it this wknd I was only doing 100%, and I can see now that I would've probably made more money going to 150%.

Another question then:
Is this common method for the people here that mostly play shoe games? I can rarely find an empty table, but I can usually find one with a couple of empty seats to spread to if needed, so this might be a good avenue for me.
 

johndoe

Well-Known Member
You've got it right. I'd say it was pretty common, heat notwithstanding. You can also do various things to keep people from sitting down, like blocking a spot (or two) with a drink, your body, or a friend. More aggressive things like being a "drunk" asshole, smelling bad, etc. also work, though they're unpleasant methods.
 

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
hawkeye said:
Sorry that I don't have all the books and info on this stuff near me, that's what I like this board for, you guys know these answers...


My situation: 6D, double anything, no re-split aces, hit soft 17, varying pen. I realize the game isn't ideal, but when the pen is good it's decent, and it's very close to where I live and there is no heat. So my opportunity costs to play are very low, I drive by multiple casinos with these rules on my daily commute.

My question: What's the point where spreading to two hands is a better idea than raising the bet on one? If I'm at the point in the count where I put out a 4-unit bet does it hurt to put out 2 hands at 2 units, or is 2 hands at 3 units better (150%)? Is there a point in the betting ramp where is becomes a better idea to spread to two hands?

I ask because I don't play all the time, very recreational. When I do get chances to go it's usually not at a low time, the tables are fairly full. The few times I've seen some good counts come through it seems like it would be better to spread to two hands earlier than normal because the amount of players eat through the hot shoe faster. That seem logical? I put it to the test this last wknd, spreading much earlier than normal at a half-full table, and it worked very well. Could be variance, that's why I ask.

No offense menat, but please save the "find a better game" speech. I've heard it, I understand, and I agree that there are better games. But I play for small stakes, for fun, when I can. So this is my game, and I'm interested in finding the best way to maximize this game.
You ever tried the Ao2 betting strategy for 6D..lol. Its a ballbuster to figure out. Above and beyond that, it changes after 3 decks dealt.


I like to use 4 bets for MD, spreading to 2-hands when you raise above 2-units.

1:8

(+1)10
(+2)20
(+3)20x20
(+4)40x40

1:12
10
30
30x30
60x60

Ive been pretty comfortable with this betting strategy for sometime. Keeping it fairly simple, really comes in handy when playing these games.

I think a 1:8 spread will give you the best bang for your buck!

Depending on what your BR is, really should be the determining factor, on how much you bet, and how you bet your money.
 
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FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
Crucial knowledge


Spreading to 2 hands when the count (mathematically) warrants it, is the
most virulent factor leading directly to being backed-off or trespassed.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
FLASH1296 said:

Spreading to 2 hands when the count (mathematically) warrants it, is the
most virulent factor leading directly to being backed-off or trespassed.
I agree completely. It's one of my 4 rules for playing longevity. (in no particular order)

1.) I don't spread to 2 hands.
2.) I play short sessions
3.) I leave after any shoe ending with a high count rather than return to minimum bet.
4.) I don't split 10's (except extremely high counts exceding the index for this play. and then I leave at the end of the shoe).

These four rules are all the cover I have ever needed.

Occasionally you can get away withspread to 2 hands during a high count if someone leaves during the shoe. You can always throw out the "don't want to change the sacred flow" remarks. :laugh: of course that only has so much value as surveilance doesn't hear a word you say.
 
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hawkeye

Well-Known Member
Flash,
I play small stakes, play at the many casinos around me, and I don't go often enough to get outed, and on red chip tables the heat is non-existent. But thanks for the word of advice, I will keep that in mind. You really think that's a big factor in getting noticed?

Jack Jackson,
Your 1-8 spread is close to what I was doing. Divide everything by two and that's about where I was. I went from $5, to $10, and then to two hands of $10.
 
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