Super Fun 21

WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
Ive asked about this game before and I read a very interesting article on the game: http://web.archive.org/web/20030611052651/cardcounter.com/SuperFun21.htm

However there are a few things in the article which I need some help on. Keep in mind I am a bit of a newb at this. The first thing I dont understand is what is Fun 14?

Secondly when using the KO counting system, do you start the count at 0 or -4?

Thanks any other information or advice would be apprieciated.

P.S. does counting the burn card in this single deck game matter? I have requested to have it shown but the dealers always say they are not allowed to reveal it.
 
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nightspirit

nightspirit

Well-Known Member
You start your IRC at 0 for single decks.

Fun 14 means the 14 most valuable deviations from basic strategy, like the Illustrious 18 at hi-lo.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
WABJ11 said:
Ive asked about this game before and I read a very interesting article on the game: http://web.archive.org/web/20030611052651/cardcounter.com/SuperFun21.htm

However there are a few things in the article which I need some help on. Keep in mind I am a bit of a newb at this. The first thing I dont understand is what is Fun 14?

Secondly when using the KO counting system, do you start the count at 0 or -4?

Thanks any other information or advice would be apprieciated.

P.S. does counting the burn card in this single deck game matter? I have requested to have it shown but the dealers always say they are not allowed to reveal it.
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Its NOT a good game because you will need to learn a different BS AND use a 20-1 spread.

One way to improve the game is IF the dealer will let you early-surrender (some do due to ingnorance).

Another improvement comes when the dealer pases you by without a hand-signal and you can get an occaisional dead hand.

Lastly, the game is an absolute winner IF you can see the dealer holecard. zg
 
B

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
Hole carding Super Fun 21

zengrifter said:
Lastly, the game is an absolute winner IF you can see the dealer holecard. zg
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Agreed, but there must be some strategy changes over Shacklefords' hole card play chart that would have you playing optimally while hole carding Super Fun 21. (Naturally the player would not follow the chart 100% for camoflauge purposes.) I've posted the same problem with Spanish 21, I more often find sloppy dealers on these 'carnival' type variations of blackjack, but there is little info on how to fully exploit it. Cardcounting we memorize flashcards and increase the difficulty of our systems to squeeze out an extra tenth of a percent or less, but if hole carding charts existed for the variation games I could probably gain a few full percentage points in advantage and play games that attract much less heat.
BW
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Brock Windsor said:
Agreed, but there must be some strategy changes over Shacklefords' hole card play chart that would have you playing optimally while hole carding Super Fun 21. (Naturally the player would not follow the chart 100% for camoflauge purposes.) I've posted the same problem with Spanish 21, I more often find sloppy dealers on these 'carnival' type variations of blackjack, but there is little info on how to fully exploit it. Cardcounting we memorize flashcards and increase the difficulty of our systems to squeeze out an extra tenth of a percent or less, but if hole carding charts existed for the variation games I could probably gain a few full percentage points in advantage and play games that attract much less heat.
BW
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Holevarding Super21 - This is a question for LVHCM!! Hey LVHCM, whats the answer?? zg
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
The casino does not show the burn card. Should I count it as -1, or is it insignificant?

Also I was told when you split aces and one of them is a diamond ace and then you get a diamond 10 card with that Ace it does not pay 2 to 1. The dealer told me you must be dealt a diamond blackjack. However when I played on Intercasino they did pay 2 to 1 even when you split them. Is there an official rule on this?
 
K

Kasi

Well-Known Member
WABJ11 said:
The casino does not show the burn card. Should I count it as -1, or is it insignificant?
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Don't count it - an unseen card is an unseen card no matter where it happens.


No official rules lol - whatever they say, that's what it is and u have to figure out what to do about it lol.
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
Well my first session went very well. I wont $300 in 2 hours using a 1-10 spread. At what count in this game do you take insurance? What do you do in counts of +5 and you are dealt 12-14 with a dealer up card of 10? Another thing I found myself doing was when I made a big bet I would forget the count because I would get nervous. When the dealer yells "checks play," why is he/she doing this?

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this post.
 
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WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
However if you could please give me a bit more information. Does it matter if I play heads up with the dealer or if there are multiple players at the table? At the casino they allow you to see 5 hands before a shuffle heads up, 3-4 hands with 2 players, 2 hands with 3 players, and 1-2 hand at a full table.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
WABJ11 said:
However if you could please give me a bit more information. Does it matter if I play heads up with the dealer or if there are multiple players at the table? At the casino they allow you to see 5 hands before a shuffle heads up, 3-4 hands with 2 players, 2 hands with 3 players, and 1-2 hand at a full table.
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In the game you describe, the best penetration is if you play two hands heads up and get 4 rounds. You will still need a big 1-15+ spread for a decent win rate = min bet 2x10 max 2x150. zg
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
The problem with that is that at the casino I play at if you play two spots the minimum bet is double the table minimum. So each spot would be $10 and for a 1-20 spread, which is what I use, I would have to shell out $200 a hand on +6 or better.

I usually avoid full tables and only go in heads up or up to 3 handed. Is this still profitable?

Thanks
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
WABJ11 said:
The problem with that is that at the casino I play at if you play two spots the minimum bet is double the table minimum. So each spot would be $10 and for a 1-20 spread, which is what I use, I would have to shell out $200 a hand on +6 or better.

I usually avoid full tables and only go in heads up or up to 3 handed. Is this still profitable?

Thanks
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Like this - 2x10-2x100, EXCEPT when the count tanks play 1x5 = 1-40. zg
 
C

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
The casino is challenging card counters!

This game is dealt face up an open invition to card counters to come in. I believe that the casino believe that the odds are so much in there favor in this game that they challenge card counters to try and beat them. The lost edge of not being paid 3 to 2 on blackjacks is so huge the liberal rules the rest of the game has does not come close to making it up. Plus the amount of mistakes that players make in this game increase dramatically simply because they have way more options. Even if you do play perfectly you are facing a starting disadvantage of .9% compared to .5% or .3% in regular blackjack with average rules. Since the average advantage player plays only with a .5% advantage that is a huge hurtle to overcome.
 
Z

ZenFan

Member
WABJ11 said:
YOu lost me there
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I think what ZG is saying is that you can bet 10-10 as a minimum untill after the 1st-3rd round IF the count has no likelyhood of swinging back up to warrant a bigger bet, then you can drop all the way to one $5 bet and that increases to overall spread to 40-1 (2x100 - 1x5). But its still a terrible game. zf
 
WABJ11

WABJ11

Well-Known Member
With a big enough spread (1-20) I think the game can actually be beaten. I've been playing for a while and am up a nice chunk.
 
Z

ZenFan

Member
WABJ11 said:
With a big enough spread (1-20) I think the game can actually be beaten. I've been playing for a while and am up a nice chunk.
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Yes, but most SF21 games aren't sufficiently dealt deep enough. zf
 
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