Surrendering on 17+

Deathclutch

Deathclutch

Well-Known Member
Hello, I am new to the forum and new to card counting so my question may seem very basic to all you experienced guys out there, but it's something I have to get past before I go any further in attempting to count cards. My question is about basic strategy.

I have a local casino that the rules are: 6 Deck, Late Surrender, Hit on A6, Insurance, can Split any cards, can Double after Split, One card after Splitting Aces (I think that's all the info you'll need).

Now my bet chart comes out looking like this:



It says here I should be Surrendering on 17+. I emailed this sites creator and he was very helpful and quick to getting back to me and this is what he explained:


My calculations show that standing with 17 vs. A has an expected value of -51.37%, whereas surrender has an e.v. of -50.00%, so surrender is the proper play. That's definitely true with 8-8 v. A as well. Your chart is correct.


I'd rather not hassle him with simple questions all day so I'll pose the question to you guys. How does this pertain to 18, 19, or 20? Wouldn't they be the +? And if so why would I Surrender if I had 20 if I know the dealer doesn't have blackjack since the game would already be over and the worst that can happen is a push?
 
B

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
Yeah, he really should make the chart have a seperate row for 17 and one for 18+. When designing that, he probably just forgot that you'd do something different for hard 17 in a H17 surrender game, any other game you always stand with 17+.
 
Deathclutch

Deathclutch

Well-Known Member
Blue Efficacy said:
Yeah, he really should make the chart have a seperate row for 17 and one for 18+. When designing that, he probably just forgot that you'd do something different for hard 17 in a H17 surrender game, any other game you always stand with 17+.
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I'm sorrry if I made it sound like the author of this site made this chart, this is one from an iPhone program that I have. The chart will vary depending on the different rule set that you put in.

So I should still be Standing on the 18+, right? That question may sound dumb, but who am I to question the charts?

Edit: Now after rereading again I see how my original wording is confusing on who I emailed and who created the chart. Chart came from iPhone. Answer came from blackjackinfo.com.
 
D

duanedibley

Well-Known Member
Deathclutch said:
So I should still be Standing on the 18+, right? That question may sound dumb, but who am I to question the charts?
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Yes. Surrender 17 vs A (Stand if you have a 3+ card 17 and surrender is no longer an option).

Stand on 18,19,20 vs A.
 
C

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
17+ is consolidated because you almost always stand when you have hard 17 or more there is one exception surrender against an ace when you have 17. That is only when you have 17 which is really close any way because the dealer busts 20 of the time with an ace "hit soft 17". You only need to win 25% of the time or more to make surrender a bad play. The dealer doesn't make 17 often with an ace when she has to hit soft 17.
 
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