Team play

[(2deep)]

Hey wats up


I was wonderin how you guys managed your teams and team bankrolls like

player compensation, does every 1 use the same system,

are there tests-checkouts, can players play alone without other teammates there,

and what tactics are you using with team play.

 

[ccibball50]

Hey wats up


I was wonderin how you guys managed your teams and team bankrolls like

player compensation, does every 1 use the same system,

are there tests-checkouts, can players play alone without other teammates there,

and what tactics are you using with team play.

All I do is split my bankroll with friend (AP) and we split wins and losses. we both still currently use hilo but are working on a differnt count. We have a stop loss of about 100 units. We have won money 18 out of our last 20 times. the two losses amount to 10 units one time and 30 units another. but we have won as much as 120 units in one session consisting of 6 to 8 hour sessions.

 

[Bojack1]

Hey wats up


I was wonderin how you guys managed your teams and team bankrolls like

player compensation, does every 1 use the same system,

are there tests-checkouts, can players play alone without other teammates there,

and what tactics are you using with team play.

The first thing I suggest when forming or running a team is have everything in writing. There can be no doubts on what is expected, and how things are done. Putting everything down in a team handbook allows for no excuses or misconceptions on goals, job description, guidelines, and very importantly, getting paid.

Player compensation on my team works on reaching net profit goals. We call it breaking bank. We set a profit goal and money is paid to the players and investors (which is currently one in the same) once that goal is met. The amount needed to break bank should be figured realistically so that players get compensated often enough to feel that its worth the effort to play. Setting goals too high can crush moral as well as lead to temptation for even worse case scenarios.

Everyone on my team uses the same counting system. Some players can perform all the jobs of the team, some players can't. You get compensated based on 3 ways on my team. First, on what your job description is on each trip. Second, a percentage of the investment share based on the individual's monetary investment. Third, on the amount of time you play at the casino. Each hour of play is divided into shares. Based on job description, the amount of shares per hour is what you will be paid for.

There are always tests to help assure a quality control and keep the confidence in each others play high at all times. Making tests harder than casino conditions and seeing teamates handle them with ease, goes along way in maneuvering through tough times without dissention.

Some players are permitted to play alone in some circumstances, but they are still representing the team, and they are funded by it as well as expected to put all gains back into the bankroll toward the goal of breaking bank.

The tactics we use are, just about what ever we can. We play straight counting BP method, advanced technique BP method, EMFH method, as well as a few I'm reluctant to talk about.

All in all, through trial and error and advice from others I respect, this way of running a team has been what I found to work best. Its fair and allows everybody to find a niche and get paid on a very regular basis.

 

[callipygian]

I was wonderin how you guys managed your teams and team bankrolls

You will find this varies greatly by team. There are many types of teams, but I'll outline two popular types.

(a) Every Member For Him or herself (EMFH). Basically, two or more counters agree to split their wins and losses equally. This reduces ROR for both players but does not change EV.

(b) Big Player (BP). One member on a team gets signaled in by teammates and places big bets. This increases EV, but also increases ROR.

player compensation

This is a moot point in EMFH teams. For BP teams, there's generally a written contract. One popular method is to pay everyone hourly plus a fraction of the winnings. Another method is to pay everyone only when the bankroll reaches its goal.

does every 1 use the same system

Not necessarily, but it can get confusing if they don't. EMFH teammates must be able to trust their teammates' systems (and their abilities to play them). The BP on a BP team doesn't even have to know how to count.

are there tests-checkouts

Not necessarily, but almost always, yes. Teammates are entrusting their money to one another, so almost everyone does this, even friends.

can players play alone without other teammates there

Sure, but the only question is what happens if the individual player suffers a large loss or scores a big gain? Nobody wants to see the bankroll go down because someone went off by himself and lost a bunch of it.

---

There are two questions you didn't ask, but are worth mentioning.

(1) How important is trust?

Trust is everything with a team. You are, literally, handing over large stacks of cash to your teammates that they will disappear with, and then return with SELF-REPORTED winnings. If you don't trust your team 100%, don't play with them. If you trust your team 99%, don't play with them.

(2) Do people use lie detectors?

People use them; whether lie detectors are effective or not is debatable. It's an expensive way to enforce trust, which is what you should have without the machines already.

The most important thing is to spell out all this in writing. Don't skimp on something just because you trust your friends, spell it out in detail so there's no scenario later which happens and nobody ever thought it would happen.

What will you do if someone loses a wad of cash? What will you do if you catch someone using money for hookers? What will you do if a player gets banned from a really profitable casino? What will you do if you catch someone underreporting winnings? What will you do if someone wants to leave the team before the bank reaches its goal? If the bank is in the red?

 

[Bojack1]

The BP on a BP team doesn't even have to know how to count.

This is a big misconception. A BP that doesn't count is known as a Gorilla Big player. This is a totally different method than just using a BP. A GBP has its uses, but is not nearly as effective as having the BP having all the skills necessary to play on his own. The spotter's job is to get the BP the count, or info needed for the advantage, and then get the hell out of the way and let the BP take it from there. Spotters should not have to stick around and waste time helping a BP play the advantage. A spotter should be counting new tables by the time the BP finishes a call in.

 

[callipygian]

A BP that doesn't count is known as a Gorilla Big player. This is a totally different method than just using a BP.

I wouldn't call it totally different, but you're right in that it's not the same. I lumped the two together for convenience. Sorry if that was confusing.

 

[Bojack1]

I wouldn't call it totally different, but you're right in that it's not the same. I lumped the two together for convenience. Sorry if that was confusing.

Sure its totally different. On my team, and on any that I know of that have used these methods, the BP is the most talented player on the team, while the GBP would be the least. That would be quite opposite. Not to mention that BP play is much more lucrative then the GBP play in standard situtions anyway. A GBP ties up players that need to be there to help him play. A BP needs no help thus freeing the team to find advantages while one is in progess. It is apples to oranges. Actually there are only very special circumstances where GBP is worth being used. A BP can be played almost everywhere. Not everywhere, but almost.

 

[callipygian]

Sure its totally different.

This ends up being a matter of semantics, as I believe we both agree on what the differences are; the disagreement is how significant those differences are.

To someone who is unfamiliar with either game, baseball and softball are the same. The same principles apply - diamond, pitcher, batter, innings. Of course there are differences, and you'd be a fool to play baseball the way you play softball (or vice versa), but in explaining the two can be grouped together.

A GBP ties up players that need to be there to help him play.

Again, semantics. A GBP doesn't need to tie up players, but could. The spectrum of BP's run from the GBP you've described to the BP that you've described. It's not that you either have to be on one extreme or the other, and there are strategies that fall in between.

As a matter of fact, given a limited number of team players who are roughly equally skilled in a target-rich environment, you can actually adopt a leapfrogging strategy in which people rotate who is the BP (or GBP, depending on how you want to define it) such that the spotter from one casino becomes the BP at the next. Within the given constraints, it's probably the most effective team play for that scenario.

Of course, given different constraints - unequal skill, large team, large bankroll - the optimal strategy changes. But that's the beauty of blackjack, almost every opportunity is unique.