The Art of Ratholing

[vonQuux]

I've heard the term "ratholing" kicked around a few times. The impression I get is to squirrel away some amount of chips such that my losses appear greater than they are thus upping comps and camoflaging my AP.

Having said that, I'm asking anyone and everyone with insight on where, when, why's (I might have missed) and how (and anything else you want to kick in, anecdotes, etc.). Is it illegal to do? How does RFID fit into the picture, etc.

Let 'er rip.

TIA (Thanks In Advance)
vonQuux

 

[EasyRhino]

- Not illegal.
- Don't let them see you doing it.
- Don't rathole "closely tracked" chips (usually blacks and up)
- Aim for ratholing twice your expected win rate

Careful when at the cashier, if the cashin is big, there are two pitfalls I know of:

- There may be a call back to the pit to confirms chip totals... it would be useful if your total wasn't much higher than what the pit saw you leave with.
- Amounts over $3000 will usually trigger a request for some sort of ID so they can track your daily total. Amounts over $10k a day will trigger a CTR form. "churning" chips with the cashier can increase the risk of either of these.

And then there's also the idea of just taking a high value chip and putting it in your pocket because you don't want it on the table. This is not ratholing, and it's also fine. But it brings up the last gotcha:
- Don't put high value chips in the same pocket/oriface as ratholed chips, you don't want to reach for a purple chip and drop greens all over the floor. Not that that's ever happened to me.

 

[sagefr0g]

- ......
- Don't let them see you doing it.
...........
And then there's also the idea of just taking a high value chip and putting it in your pocket because you don't want it on the table. This is not ratholing, and it's also fine. .....

then there is the flip side of the coin. do it in plain sight of one and all. actually being a red chipper and a quitter when i'm aheader i don't rat hole chips but i discovered from my own nervous habit of fiddling with my chips, putting them in and out of jacket pockets and the like is barely noticed. but once when i was getting up to leave the dealer said to me, "hey buddy why don't you give me those chips in your pocket so i can color them up. and another time a pit boss says to me when i moved to another table, " what did ya do with that green chip you had".

 

[EasyRhino]

Well, that's fine, you can get caught ratholing... but then they won't have a misguided opinion of your total win/loss. Which is the whole purpose.

 

[vonQuux]

OK so ...if I understand correctly, maybe I show up with $1,000 worth of chips. I play for an hour or three, win $200 but I casually squirrel away $400 of those chips over the course of play. By the end I've really got $1,200 in chips but only $800 visible to the pit boss.

I color up when I'm ready to leave, the pit boss comes over and sees that I have $800 in chips and records this somehow, attached to my name. The casino computers now show me having lost $200, maybe I get some cheezy comps (a free sno cone?), etc.

So now I bring my $1,200 over to the cage, they take my chips and hand me $1,200.

Does that sound about right?

If this is correct, why on earth do they have the pit boss do the tabulation of earnings/losses and not the cage?

Also, what does "churning chips" mean?

vQ

 

[sagefr0g]

Well, that's fine, you can get caught ratholing... but then they won't have a misguided opinion of your total win/loss. Which is the whole purpose.

lol right but the thing is getting confronted (in my experience) is a rarity and the blatant rathole should be difficult for the pit boss to accurately follow.

 

[EasyRhino]

Yep, you've got the basics of ratholing.

If this is correct, why on earth do they have the pit boss do the tabulation of earnings/losses and not the cage?

The cage has no idea what you bought in for initially. Heck you might even be carrying chips for somewhere else, or from some other day. They also don't know other useful information for a rating, like what games you were playing, for how long, or how much you were betting.

"Churn," in the extreme case, would work like this:
1) Buy $1000 in chips.
2) Play a few $10 hands.
3) Go to cage and cash in your chips for cash
4) Return to table, buy another $1000 in cihps
3) Play a few hands
4) Go back to cage.

First, it would look like blatant money laundering. You could be trading your drug money for fresh money out of the cage. That's no OUR problem, but enough cash activity in one day is going to start getting your transactions tracked more carefully by the casino. And no one wants that.

 

[GeorgeD]

I've churned smaller amounts less frequently, and as far as I know it's not been noticed. Probably wouldn't work in a small joint

I just cash out when I take a break and buy in again when I return ... sometimes even the same table. Even if the dealer/pit recognized me they never said anything. I figure they think I played at another table or different game and lost what I walked away with.

With some ratholed, I figure it makes my wins seems smaller or losses look bigger

Yep, you've got the basics of ratholing.


The cage has no idea what you bought in for initially. Heck you might even be carrying chips for somewhere else, or from some other day. They also don't know other useful information for a rating, like what games you were playing, for how long, or how much you were betting.

"Churn," in the extreme case, would work like this:
1) Buy $1000 in chips.
2) Play a few $10 hands.
3) Go to cage and cash in your chips for cash
4) Return to table, buy another $1000 in cihps
3) Play a few hands
4) Go back to cage.

First, it would look like blatant money laundering. You could be trading your drug money for fresh money out of the cage. That's no OUR problem, but enough cash activity in one day is going to start getting your transactions tracked more carefully by the casino. And no one wants that.

 

[EasyRhino]

The worst case scenario is a casino with only one cage that has a low threshold for verifying high value chips and is is only 15 feet from the pit with a direct line of sight.

 

[moo321]

The only problem with ratholing is that if surveillance catches you, it can be a dead giveaway that you're a counter, at a place that was safe. Although if you don't rathole, your lifetime win is gonna give you away as well. So, pick your poison!

 

[Doofus]

The easiest way to rathole is during my trip to the bathroom. Everything that goes with me into the can doesn't make it back to the table. And from my experience, ratholing doesn't mark somebody as a counter. Some ploppies do it as a disciplinary measure.

 

[moo321]

The easiest way to rathole is during my trip to the bathroom. Everything that goes with me into the can doesn't make it back to the table. And from my experience, ratholing doesn't mark somebody as a counter. Some ploppies do it as a disciplinary measure.

Depends on how it looks. If you're kind of blatant about it, I actually think that helps you. But if you're putting chips down the back of your shirt, or palming off chips, it looks bad...

 

[blackchipjim]

rat hole

I just had a weird experience happen at the table with a guy ratholing greens. I was sitting for a while and the guy next to me stands up with what looked like 2 or 3 hundred in green and walked away. It was the shuffle and the dealer asks to color up his greens , he ignores the dealer and keeps walking which really pisses off the dealer. Since it's just me and the dealer now as he shuffles he tells me the next time that he happens to be a suit he will pay the son of bitch back. He gets his ass chewed for not accounting for his loss of chips to a specific person. The real kicker was he knew the guy really walked away with 8 hundred in green which is 5 hundred I didn't see him walk with. This guy is now in for a real surprise next time he walks in and starts playing. blackchipjim

 

[ihate17]

Not a pro-ratholer

I just had a weird experience happen at the table with a guy ratholing greens. I was sitting for a while and the guy next to me stands up with what looked like 2 or 3 hundred in green and walked away. It was the shuffle and the dealer asks to color up his greens , he ignores the dealer and keeps walking which really pisses off the dealer. Since it's just me and the dealer now as he shuffles he tells me the next time that he happens to be a suit he will pay the son of bitch back. He gets his ass chewed for not accounting for his loss of chips to a specific person. The real kicker was he knew the guy really walked away with 8 hundred in green which is 5 hundred I didn't see him walk with. This guy is now in for a real surprise next time he walks in and starts playing. blackchipjim

$800 green is a highly noticable amount. This guy if he was an advantage player who was looking to change his lifetime win into a loss at this casino would never do this. Simply, every single chip that that dealer and pit can not account for will be credited to this player and perhaps even a few additional ones.
This is why I preach, a very slow approach. A couple of greens on a bathroom or cell phone break. A couple of greens when a new player comes in with chips. A couple of greens when a player colors up. At these times the eyes of the eye, pit and dealer are elsewhere and one or two chips will not be noticed. The point is if you are making $100 per hour in the casino, can you rathole $150-$200 per hour in the casino fairly steadily and slowly and sneakidly (is that a word?).

Any guy who just takes $800 in green off the table without letting the dealer color up is just pissing off the dealer and pit (another fill) and did it because he wanted too.

ihate17

 

[blackchipjim]

ratters

I did a little bit of research by asking the dealer why he cared. His reply was twofold, he said he gets his ass chewed for not identifing who and when the chips left and of course a refill slows the game down next round. The most interesting comment which I didn't reveal was what the next course of action when he returns next time. I was trying to get it out of the dealer as to what it would be but he clammed up on me. blackchipjim

 

[Finn Dog]

The easiest way to rathole is during my trip to the bathroom. Everything that goes with me into the can doesn't make it back to the table.

Doofus:

You're not saying you take your whole stack with you, (only what you've palmed, right)?

 

[kewljason]

Doofus:

You're not saying you take your whole stack with you, (only what you've palmed, right)?

I think what he's saying is yes he takes all his chips with him. Say he has a stack of $600 green. when he returns he places the stack back on the table. but now its only $500 or $525 or whatever. This is the way I do it as well. I've never really understood this concept of leaving your chips at the table during bathroom break. I wouldn't leave a stack of cash. Or my wallet. Or my watch. Or my car keys, so I'm not leaving a thousand dollars worth of chips. maybe thats just me though. What happens when the dealer changes while you are away? just becomes a bigger hassle to me. I personally like to stay in possession of my possessions.

 

[Bossplayer21]

I agree

I think what he's saying is yes he takes all his chips with him. Say he has a stack of $600 green. when he returns he places the stack back on the table. but now its only $500 or $525 or whatever. This is the way I do it as well. I've never really understood this concept of leaving your chips at the table during bathroom break. I wouldn't leave a stack of cash. Or my wallet. Or my watch. Or my car keys, so I'm not leaving a thousand dollars worth of chips. maybe thats just me though. What happens when the dealer changes while you are away? just becomes a bigger hassle to me. I personally like to stay in possession of my possessions.

I guess I never thought much of leaving my chips while I went ot the bathroom. I figured they had so many cameras on that table that it would be easily corrected. Would the casino give you your chips back or whould they say you have to file a police report and a big sorry better take your chips next time? On more than one occasion I went to take my chips to the bathroom and the dealer and pit told me to leave them there they would watch them, I guess it is my money i could have declined their offer and took them with me. Almost allways I have my wife or a friend with me so they can watch my chips while I take a break.

 

[ohbehave]

I don't try to take all my chips with me on restroom breaks. There are a couple of reasons dealers encourage players to leave their chips on the table for a short break. Primarily because it forces the dealer to attempt to color you up which slows down the game. The other would be to thwart the very thing that is being discussed... returning to the table with fewer chips than you left with.

 

[johndoe]

Doofus:

You're not saying you take your whole stack with you, (only what you've palmed, right)?

I don't think this will work. When you color up, they'll enter in your total chips you leave with on the computer, then when you sit down they'll start you with whatever chips you have. Unless they aren't diligent about getting people to color up.