The Finer Points Of Ratholing (101)

[Finn Dog]

Can the BJinfo members among us--who are accomplished ratholers--please explain to those of us who aspire to such greatness, exactly how and when to successfully accomplish this sleight of hand?

I'm up on the quantities (namely, palm your hourly EV) and recommended denominations (stay away from Black), etc--it's just the physical act itself I really need advice on; and in particular, how not to get busted by the PB or the Eye.

If PMs are in order, any would be gratefully appreciated.

Best regards,

FD

 

[itakeyourmoney]

Can the BJinfo members among us--who are accomplished ratholers--please explain to those of us who aspire to such greatness, exactly how and when to successfully accomplish this sleight of hand?

I'm up on the quantities (namely, palm your hourly EV) and recommended denominations (stay away from Black), etc--it's just the physical act itself I really need advice on.

If PMs are in order, any would be gratefully appreciated.

Best regards,

FD

Ratholing = bad idea, period.

 

[rukus]

Ratholing = bad idea, period.

your suggestion = wrong.

ratholing is simple to do, particularly if you regularly play with the chips in your hands often. just sneak a green (as long as you have a stack of em) every so often. with the chip in your palm, just slide it into your pocket. if "cover" is order, i usually slip it into the same pockey as my cell phone that i then take out as my hand comes out, to check the time of course..

in terms of when, dont do it right after a fill, but a fine time to do it is after another guy walks away from the table without coloring up. the dealer/PB will be forced to assume any missing chip you may have pocketed was taken by that guy. obviously dont do it very often (though i can be guilty of doing it too often sometimes ) and dont do it if it is just you at the table, as the PB is likely to have taken a reading of the tray once the table previously emptied and will likely take another one if you leave the table empty when you leave. there are plenty of other opportunities but that should give you a start.

 

[ihate17]

Ratholing is important, if done properly

Ratholing = bad idea, period.

If you have a store where your act works, have played there often and have not been backed off, your biggest danger is lifetime win. Proper ratholing can change your lifetime win to a lifetime loss in the eye of the casino and there is little that is more important to you if you are in that situation.

To call it a bad idea must mean that you think it is done obviously, or that you think the pit must be concentrating on just you and every chip in the place.

You take restroom breaks, people come in and out of the table, fills are made the eye can not tell if your stack of green is 16 or 17 high, and pits watch more than you and one table. You must make sure you are not spotted because it leaves the question of why someone betting green and black would put a single green chip in their pocket.

ihate17

 

[sagefr0g]

i don't get this or maybe i'm just totally confused on the issue. i sit right there at the table and with no stealth or attempt to hide move chips in and out of my pockets all the time. i've always done that. i can't imagine how any pit critter would get an accurate read on me.
lol, one time my wife and i were playing together. we decided to leave, so i pushed all my chips and hers to the center of the table all mixed together.
lmao, the dealer acted like she was going to have a stroke or something.

 

[callipygian]

Ratholing, like any other cover play, should be used whenever it's necessary and never used when it's not necessary.

The goal isn't to turn a short-term winning session into a short-term losing session. The goal is to turn a long-term win into a long-term losing session, mostly because you're playing rated and don't want a long-term win.

Obviously, if you aren't playing rated, then ratholing probably does more damage than good.

 

[moo321]

I play with my chips constantly, shuffle them, etc. Not as an act, I've just played too much poker, so I do it as a habit. So, the eye isn't gonna see it unless they're watching me the whole time.

And believe me, the eye is not watching you. They don't care about you, they certainly aren't watching your table to make sure no one is counting or ratholing. They're much more worried about you capping a bet, or the dealer stealing chips from the tray.

That said, if you're on a very occasional trip to a casino, you don't have to rathole. If you play a place twice a week, you'll hang yourself within a few months if you don't rathole.

 

[21forme]

Ratholing, like any other cover play, should be used whenever it's necessary and never used when it's not necessary.

IMO, it's always necessary, whether you win or lose.

 

[itakeyourmoney]

Ratholing = bad idea, period.

My apologies. Here is a sign of my obvious noobness: I didn't know what ratholing was so I googled it and it said that it was taking chips off the table during play, which I naturally assumed meant like swiping chips off your stack that you've bet.

So as an example you bet $50 (we'll say 10 reds), but you think you're going to lose (or maybe you do lose) so you swipe a chip or two from the top of the stack while the dealer is distracted. This is what I was saying was a bad idea.

 

[ihate17]

Yup, that is not only a bad idea but illegal

My apologies. Here is a sign of my obvious noobness: I didn't know what ratholing was so I googled it and it said that it was taking chips off the table during play, which I naturally assumed meant like swiping chips off your stack that you've bet.

So as an example you bet $50 (we'll say 10 reds), but you think you're going to lose (or maybe you do lose) so you swipe a chip or two from the top of the stack while the dealer is distracted. This is what I was saying was a bad idea.

Glad you figured things out.
In my personal situation there is one casino where I have played for about 25 years and another where I am getting close to 10 years and consider both of them my "homes" when I am in that area/areas.

My lifetime win at both places would have got me tossed many years ago since I played rated at both. Playing unrated in these places would be senseless since I have become well enough known, but my act has worked there and a look at win/loss statements has shown ratholing to be very effective at both places. Most other places I tend to play unrated and do not rathole at all, just short sessions and out the door.

Also, observing just how the pit tracks chips is important. One place only really tracks purple and higher. I think they are supposed to also track the black but their pits seem too busy to do that while handling comps, ratings, fills, markers etc. Add to that, this place rotates dealers around the pit, meaning that you do not have 2 dealers for a whole shift but perhaps 8-10, so something given to you a few dealers ago will not be known by the current dealer if the pit asks. This place is so bad that I have several times colored up 7-$800, asked for black and put them in my pocket while continuing to play. When I leave the table when there is a new dealer the pit will then mark down the amount I colored up for but the earlier color up was never recorded. Most places do pay much more attention than this place though.

The other place is typical, tracking black and higher carefully but not tracking green at all.

ihate17

 

[callipygian]

My apologies. Here is a sign of my obvious noobness: I didn't know what ratholing was so I googled it and it said that it was taking chips off the table during play, which I naturally assumed meant like swiping chips off your stack that you've bet.

:laugh:

Yeah, to be clear, this is called "pinching" your bet, and is zero-tolerance illegal. That is a horrible idea, unless you enjoy prison.

 

[Finn Dog]

Restroom Ratholing?

I saw an excerpt from the author of 200 Proof Blackjack that had me confused--it said:

"Rathole when taking a restroom break by taking most of your chips with you and not replacing all of them upon your return."

Do you all agree with this--does it look natural to take some of your money with you while you're gone (as a safeguard against a Brinks job)--or does this look too unusual?

Best regards,

FD

 

[callipygian]

does it look natural to take some of your money with you while you're gone (as a safeguard against a Brinks job)--or does this look too unusual?

I've never seen anyone do it, for what that statement is worth.

 

[Finn Dog]

I've never seen anyone do it, for what that statement is worth.

That's what I thought, too--but here's the link to the excerpt (for what it's worth):

http://www.bj21.com/bj_reference/pages/coverbetting.shtml

 

[Cardcounter]

Cage call!

When you go and cashout more than a target number of chips say $500 they call the pit and tell the pit boss how much you cashed out. Sometimes I will use this knowledge to my advantage and even cashout less than I have in my pocket. I will cash the amount that I think that the cage thinks I have so they can confirm it in the pit. Than I will take my chips to another casino buy in with the last casinos pocketed chips and play a few hands there.

 

[ihate17]

It is just part of knowing your casino

When you go and cashout more than a target number of chips say $500 they call the pit and tell the pit boss how much you cashed out. Sometimes I will use this knowledge to my advantage and even cashout less than I have in my pocket. I will cash the amount that I think that the cage thinks I have so they can confirm it in the pit. Than I will take my chips to another casino buy in with the last casinos pocketed chips and play a few hands there.

Many low roller joints do just as cardcounter says and at these places you might cash out twice instead of once when coloring up.
Places that handle larger amounts and have many pits generally will not do this but will want to ID you if you are cashing over a certain amount (often $3,000 today) but will not call a pit.

Now if I was in cardcounter's area of Nevada for a few days and cashed out say $900 from a table, I would give the cage about half of that and save the rest of the chips for perhaps my play at the next shift at his casino. Same for any area with multiple casinos that do not handle fairly large amounts well.

ihate17

 

[EasyRhino]

- know which denomination chips the pit will want to verify when you leave the table.
- know what dollar amount will trigger a call from the cage to the pit to verify
- know what denomination chip will trigger a cage -> pit call
- know the risk that you'll bump into the same cashier twice in a short time
- know the risk that the pit will spot you making multiple seemingly senseless passes at the cage
- know the amounts that will definitely trigger a multiple transaction log ($3000) or a currency transaction report ($10000)

 

[chichow]

And in certain cases you CANNOT avoid it.

Say at the Las Vegas Hilton. The HL room is where some of the better blackjack games are. <-- for the Hilton. I understand that there are better games at other properties.

Since the HL room uses Bacc chips, you are going to the cage calling the pit every time you cash out of there. Bleah.

 

[moo321]

I've noticed that AC bosses seem to track greens more than most places.

This one boss could NOT figure out where that $500 worth of green went! (it was in my pocket)

 

[kewljason]

I've noticed that AC bosses seem to track greens more than most places.

This one boss could NOT figure out where that $500 worth of green went! (it was in my pocket)

depends on when you play. On weekends most tables are $25 and up, so Everyone is playing green. Becomes pretty hard to track them.