The Idea of a Double Count

So the applications of this would be rather limited I believe, and the execution of it might be impossible to do if one has a fast dealer, but if done correctly, I believe it could open up some AP possibilities for side bets and suited blackjack games.

What if in addition to your regular count, you kept a count of color as well? For example, you count Black as +1, and Red as -1 (or the reverse if it makes exploiting the side bet better), and keep that count along with the running count, (e.g. Using Hi-Lo [RC, Color Count], (0,0), (1,-1), (1,0), (2,1), (1,2), etc.). One would have to divide their "color count" by 2 before calculating a "true color count," but with this in mind, could one increase their possibilities of getting a flush/trips and/or suited blackjacks when both counts get into the upper/lower extremes?

I'm curious if anyone could do some simulations on CVCX on this, as I have a chromebook and can't get it on my computer. If this proves to be a worthwhile venture, I can go into more detail about how it could be applied, but if not, I suppose I'll just have to resign myself to the idea.


Well-Known Member
Secondary counts for sidebets are possible but really tricky to do accurately with a main count. Best to do one or the other, or have a partner.

CVCX won't simulate this, usually you have to write your own sims, since the side bets are not blackjack. A few are published in various places.
CVdata has a lot of blackjack sidebets included, I believe it can handle card colour.

As for counting side bets, in general, if there's a side bet worth counting, it's more valuable than counting blackjack, so you wouldn't have to do both at once. You may actively not want to be counting blackjack, as it makes you much more likely to get backed off.

For your interest, there have been some great colour based side bets.

Dog Hand

Well-Known Member

If you are planning to use HiLo for the BJ betting and playing and the color count for betting the sidebet, then yes, CVData can indeed perform the sim. However, it would not be able to combine the two counts: this means, for example, that you would not be able to tell CVData to play the side bet only when HiLo >+6 AND the color count >+4.

Also, I don't understand your statement:

One would have to divide their "color count" by 2 before calculating a "true color count,"

Why wouldn't you divide by unseen decks to get the true color count?

Dog Hand
You're right @doghand. There'd be no reason to divide by 2. It would just make things more complicated. (I thought that because there were two suits per color that one would need to divide it by 2 in order to get more accurate. But it just makes it more complicated, so there is no reason to do that).

I also managed to create my own simulation and found out that this side bet is not beatable with this particular idea. Since I put so much effort into it though, I'm going to try and see if there is any other side bet that can be beaten this way. If not, at least I tried. Isn't that the case in most AP efforts after all? :D