blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Player A who uses a lot of camo and has never been backed off?
or
Player B who uses no camo and has been backed off?
:joker::whip:
or
Player B who uses no camo and has been backed off?
:joker::whip:
The Superior Player?
- Thread starter blackjack avenger
- Start date
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Assumptions?
Are you assuming only 1 casino available?
Many casinos in the world
:joker::whip:
Are you assuming only 1 casino available?
Many casinos in the world
:joker::whip:
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
Most bestest!
The superior player would be the Turtle long and slow since his longevity is certain. The Hare will never be able to play again thus seriously harming his long run. Alot of casinos yes but the time and effort it takes to travel has to be taken into the overall cost against profit. This doesn't really hold true for a high stakes player since the world is his casinodom.
The superior player would be the Turtle long and slow since his longevity is certain. The Hare will never be able to play again thus seriously harming his long run. Alot of casinos yes but the time and effort it takes to travel has to be taken into the overall cost against profit. This doesn't really hold true for a high stakes player since the world is his casinodom.
blackjack avenger
Well-Known Member
Certainty in Gambling?
Can we assume the more camo the higher the ror?
Lower EV do expenses become overwhelming?
So does the camo player really have more longevity?
:joker::whip:
Can we assume the more camo the higher the ror?
Lower EV do expenses become overwhelming?
So does the camo player really have more longevity?
:joker::whip:
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Not in the case of short sessions, which for my money is the best camo.
Pro21
Well-Known Member
This is ridiculous. You would be hard pressed to find a "professional" player that is not already in all the databases.
the winningest player is always the aggressive one
The Winningest players are always going to be the most aggressive player. That doesn't mean being stupid...you can be aggressive and still minimize backoffs with keeping sessions short and moving around and being aware of when the gig is about to be up.
1. Being aggressive does not mean instant backoffs everywhere...it may mean getting a lot of backoffs and that isn't necessarily a bad thing if you are willing to travel.
2. Pushing the limits somewhat enables you to get more information about your opponent. Just like if you just call in Hold-Em you find out little information versus a raise where you get to see the reaction of your opponent. You will get most of your EV at the handful of casinos that let you sit there and blast away for days, weeks, or even longer until your cumulative win is so big they just give up. Always play politely and you'll never find out which casinos really want to play with you.
3. There are more casinos now than ever before. They open new ones and I can recycle older ones faster than they can throw me out.
4. Getting thrown out quickly can be a good thing...at least the casino doesn't get to know you very well. In six months you can put on a hat and try again on a different shift and use a slightly different approach...maybe you'll last longer...or maybe not.
5. The player who uses cover is also increasing his variance and consequently N0. Run some simulations with various cover packages on CV-Data and see the actual costs in terms of reduced SCORE and increase N0. You can really throw yourself overboard with cover very easily unless you are playing a very very good game. Obviously, the higher the base SCORE of any given game the more politely you can afford to play it either with giant spread and lots of off the top cover OR very narrow spread and little cover.
6. The intolerant casinos, you know who you are, will probably throw out the player using cover fairly quick anyway...so the cover is a waste of time.
The Winningest players are always going to be the most aggressive player. That doesn't mean being stupid...you can be aggressive and still minimize backoffs with keeping sessions short and moving around and being aware of when the gig is about to be up.
1. Being aggressive does not mean instant backoffs everywhere...it may mean getting a lot of backoffs and that isn't necessarily a bad thing if you are willing to travel.
2. Pushing the limits somewhat enables you to get more information about your opponent. Just like if you just call in Hold-Em you find out little information versus a raise where you get to see the reaction of your opponent. You will get most of your EV at the handful of casinos that let you sit there and blast away for days, weeks, or even longer until your cumulative win is so big they just give up. Always play politely and you'll never find out which casinos really want to play with you.
3. There are more casinos now than ever before. They open new ones and I can recycle older ones faster than they can throw me out.
4. Getting thrown out quickly can be a good thing...at least the casino doesn't get to know you very well. In six months you can put on a hat and try again on a different shift and use a slightly different approach...maybe you'll last longer...or maybe not.
5. The player who uses cover is also increasing his variance and consequently N0. Run some simulations with various cover packages on CV-Data and see the actual costs in terms of reduced SCORE and increase N0. You can really throw yourself overboard with cover very easily unless you are playing a very very good game. Obviously, the higher the base SCORE of any given game the more politely you can afford to play it either with giant spread and lots of off the top cover OR very narrow spread and little cover.
6. The intolerant casinos, you know who you are, will probably throw out the player using cover fairly quick anyway...so the cover is a waste of time.
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blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
ridiculous reality?
I guess I'm way off base with the hare and turtle. Short term gains are good but the question is superior. We are not talking pros here and if you have to spend half your time ducking and weaving databases you've wasted alot of time. The answer fits the question not for a pro his camo is pretty set not to hurt his bottom line and his ror is not going to go up that much on the right plays. If a competent player goes into one casino after another kicks their butt for big losses rest assured you eventually run out of plays to play. You will end up writing books about how great you were and that's about all the action you would see. If you don't believe it ask some of the guys who are in that place right now.
I guess I'm way off base with the hare and turtle. Short term gains are good but the question is superior. We are not talking pros here and if you have to spend half your time ducking and weaving databases you've wasted alot of time. The answer fits the question not for a pro his camo is pretty set not to hurt his bottom line and his ror is not going to go up that much on the right plays. If a competent player goes into one casino after another kicks their butt for big losses rest assured you eventually run out of plays to play. You will end up writing books about how great you were and that's about all the action you would see. If you don't believe it ask some of the guys who are in that place right now.
aslan
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with KJ. If short sessions can be considered camo, you have the best of both worlds wrapped up in one, aggressive and under the radar.
I have found that camo may be a desirable feature waiting for the opportunity for that "aggressive quick hit," but the quick hit is itself the best camo of all in the sense that you will not be hanging around for casino evaluation. I usually play rated, but have begun to play unrated. I figure with enough repeated wins at the same casinos they will get a read on me no matter how good my camo is.
I have found that camo may be a desirable feature waiting for the opportunity for that "aggressive quick hit," but the quick hit is itself the best camo of all in the sense that you will not be hanging around for casino evaluation. I usually play rated, but have begun to play unrated. I figure with enough repeated wins at the same casinos they will get a read on me no matter how good my camo is.
Sharky
Well-Known Member
camo is a joke for most players as:
- their (low) level of play hardly raises a brow
- their (high) level of play can be camo in and of itself (wealthy "gamblers")
- their play at any store is limited (non-regular)
- they WAY overrate how/that they are being watched
===> UNNECESSARY -ev for most
- their (low) level of play hardly raises a brow
- their (high) level of play can be camo in and of itself (wealthy "gamblers")
- their play at any store is limited (non-regular)
- they WAY overrate how/that they are being watched
===> UNNECESSARY -ev for most
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blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
Superior
This is just my oppinion not a fact since I don't know if lifetime barrings or restricted playing of APs are in fact in force for those players. We trust in the math for our trade If you live in Vegas but are barred from playing what is the effect of traveling elsewhere. I believe the best way to play is in fact to hit and run for high stakes but is this realistic for the majority of the players? No! I think the general question was for the ap who goes for short trips to a set amount of stores with longer trips once in while to places that have stores galore.
This is just my oppinion not a fact since I don't know if lifetime barrings or restricted playing of APs are in fact in force for those players. We trust in the math for our trade If you live in Vegas but are barred from playing what is the effect of traveling elsewhere. I believe the best way to play is in fact to hit and run for high stakes but is this realistic for the majority of the players? No! I think the general question was for the ap who goes for short trips to a set amount of stores with longer trips once in while to places that have stores galore.
Databases are overrated. My associates get burned more because someone recognizes them from 30 years of high stakes play rather than anything in a database. Databases are now pretty static. Short term regional fax networks are the biggest threats to my EV right now.
do you meam hit and run big stakes counting or no counting?
blackchipjim
Well-Known Member
Longevity
I'm mean counting what is the purpose of anything else. I have listened to alot of stories like Bigplayer's where a whale get's the same treatment as an ap. Being conservative in the amount you hit the stores for and how often is paramount to how long your career is going to last. Good players make money and superior players like master thieves never get caught.:joker:
I'm mean counting what is the purpose of anything else. I have listened to alot of stories like Bigplayer's where a whale get's the same treatment as an ap. Being conservative in the amount you hit the stores for and how often is paramount to how long your career is going to last. Good players make money and superior players like master thieves never get caught.:joker:
Pro21
Well-Known Member
This is just not true. If I could wave a magic wand and give you the ability to win money at slots I guarantee you would get barred when you won more money than they could stomach. I know of players who have been barred playing craps, roulette, CSMs, carnival game, it doesn't matter. Professional players ALL get barred for the crime of winning.
What makes a superior player is one who has moved beyond counting. The more ways a player has of beating a casino, the more superior he or she is.
Sometimes, I think AP's get too focused on beating the casinos rather than working the other angle of beating the players in ways that the casinos won't or working with the other players to create a larger EV for yourself. Both of which have given me huge gains in my EV. The most successful players aren't always the ones with the biggest bankrolls. They're the ones who exploit the biggest opportunities. Most people find it hard to believe but I'll bet I can earn more consistently than a straight counter at a high roller table.