To "Seeker" re: bjfonline
- Thread starter The Mayor
- Start date
Repost
Mayor, I appreciate your concern, but on my screen at least my post still appears. Anyway, I've copied it here in case it really is unavailable to some people. It was in response to BlackJackHack's comment that a defect of other sites, including BJF Online, was that people are referred to books available for sale on the site. (He also mentioned paid portions of a site, which BJFO never had.)
Repost from "Re: bjfonline" thread:
I was one of the BJFO moderators who sometimes mentioned books for sale on the site, so I want to comment on that point.
On the Usenet newsgroup rec.gambling.blackjack, where nothing is for sale, I sometimes answer newbies' questions by pointing them to a book. The simple fact is that, in a few decades' worth of existing blackjack literature, you can find answers to quite a few questions. On RGB I've also given information about where such books can be purchased, including links to bj21.com, ConJelCo.com, and rge21.com.
On BJFO, a site hosted at no charge by Huntington Press, it just seemed tacky to me to refer people to one of HP's competitors. Therefore, when I recommended a book, even if it was a book not published by HP (such as Blackjack Attack, published by RGE), I gave a link to where HP was selling it.
There was no policy on BJFO of trying to increase HP's sales. The moderators were never instructed to hawk HP products, to avoid criticizing books published by HP, or anything else. When I referred to a book, I did so because I thought my comments would help people find their way through the many blackjack books available.
The only time I can remember that HP's commercial interests were involved was when someone posted something about how to abuse Las Vegas Advisor coupons. Anthony Curtis responded, with some asperity, pointing out how the suggested tactics would make the casinos less likely to provide the coupons, and thus be harmful to the players overall (as well as harmful to HP).
Mayor, I appreciate your concern, but on my screen at least my post still appears. Anyway, I've copied it here in case it really is unavailable to some people. It was in response to BlackJackHack's comment that a defect of other sites, including BJF Online, was that people are referred to books available for sale on the site. (He also mentioned paid portions of a site, which BJFO never had.)
Repost from "Re: bjfonline" thread:
I was one of the BJFO moderators who sometimes mentioned books for sale on the site, so I want to comment on that point.
On the Usenet newsgroup rec.gambling.blackjack, where nothing is for sale, I sometimes answer newbies' questions by pointing them to a book. The simple fact is that, in a few decades' worth of existing blackjack literature, you can find answers to quite a few questions. On RGB I've also given information about where such books can be purchased, including links to bj21.com, ConJelCo.com, and rge21.com.
On BJFO, a site hosted at no charge by Huntington Press, it just seemed tacky to me to refer people to one of HP's competitors. Therefore, when I recommended a book, even if it was a book not published by HP (such as Blackjack Attack, published by RGE), I gave a link to where HP was selling it.
There was no policy on BJFO of trying to increase HP's sales. The moderators were never instructed to hawk HP products, to avoid criticizing books published by HP, or anything else. When I referred to a book, I did so because I thought my comments would help people find their way through the many blackjack books available.
The only time I can remember that HP's commercial interests were involved was when someone posted something about how to abuse Las Vegas Advisor coupons. Anthony Curtis responded, with some asperity, pointing out how the suggested tactics would make the casinos less likely to provide the coupons, and thus be harmful to the players overall (as well as harmful to HP).
Re: Repost
Thank you Seeker! Since my departure from that site I've been accused of everything from bad talking our old haunt to killing Arnold. People don't understand how easy it is to get an e mail address with any name.
About the site, truth is we never pushed anything and when the vote came around whether to allow Pop Ups and other forms of irritating advertisement we all agreed that it would be a sell out and decided not to do it.
My concerns kicked in when the "fight club" started. The exposure of private e-mails posted on the fight club page made me ill. It turned into the personnel Vendetta Page. You should know this Eliot! People tore into you on that page and when I tried to defend you my posts were busted!
I was the first to finally back out/step down. I know all the reasons for the demise of BJFO but it's not for me to say. To this day I still back AS and I believe he will step up and give his side when things mellow out.
Best
-Cellini
Thank you Seeker! Since my departure from that site I've been accused of everything from bad talking our old haunt to killing Arnold. People don't understand how easy it is to get an e mail address with any name.
About the site, truth is we never pushed anything and when the vote came around whether to allow Pop Ups and other forms of irritating advertisement we all agreed that it would be a sell out and decided not to do it.
My concerns kicked in when the "fight club" started. The exposure of private e-mails posted on the fight club page made me ill. It turned into the personnel Vendetta Page. You should know this Eliot! People tore into you on that page and when I tried to defend you my posts were busted!
I was the first to finally back out/step down. I know all the reasons for the demise of BJFO but it's not for me to say. To this day I still back AS and I believe he will step up and give his side when things mellow out.
Best
-Cellini
Re: Repost
The only real reason a site can fail is by hackers or lack of funding. If the failure of the site is due to inner strife then that is sad. BJFO was by far a excellent medium for card counting. It started with a bang and expanded very fast into all the facets that this type of website could even become: education, legal matters, advance play and strategy, history, comedy/entertainment, friendship as well as honest open descent and debate. They had expert knowledge on how the casino thought, watched and rewarded the gambler and AP alike. What a site...and it was lead by a legend of card counting Arnold Snyder. I'm waiting to see what will happen. Is this the end or is it a reconstruction of a great idea into perfection or is it over. We will wait and see. For now CC.COM is the pick of the week for Anthony Curtis and that makes me proud to be a part of this medium!
The only real reason a site can fail is by hackers or lack of funding. If the failure of the site is due to inner strife then that is sad. BJFO was by far a excellent medium for card counting. It started with a bang and expanded very fast into all the facets that this type of website could even become: education, legal matters, advance play and strategy, history, comedy/entertainment, friendship as well as honest open descent and debate. They had expert knowledge on how the casino thought, watched and rewarded the gambler and AP alike. What a site...and it was lead by a legend of card counting Arnold Snyder. I'm waiting to see what will happen. Is this the end or is it a reconstruction of a great idea into perfection or is it over. We will wait and see. For now CC.COM is the pick of the week for Anthony Curtis and that makes me proud to be a part of this medium!
Vendetta or Not
The exposure of private e-mails posted on the fight club page made me ill.
As you know, I am the one who posted the emails. Lots of people like to think that Arnold put me up to it. He did not. Arnold did advise & help me, but only at my request, and he never tried to pursuade me to do anything.
The posting of the emails were my idea. I did it out of necessity, and that necessity was even proven in the emails.
A lot of people know me around here, quite a few personally. I am known as a person who stands by his convictions. I did what I felt was right, and I have no regrets.
The exposure of private e-mails posted on the fight club page made me ill.
As you know, I am the one who posted the emails. Lots of people like to think that Arnold put me up to it. He did not. Arnold did advise & help me, but only at my request, and he never tried to pursuade me to do anything.
The posting of the emails were my idea. I did it out of necessity, and that necessity was even proven in the emails.
A lot of people know me around here, quite a few personally. I am known as a person who stands by his convictions. I did what I felt was right, and I have no regrets.
Re: Vendetta or Not
"My concerns kicked in when the "fight club" started. The exposure of private e-mails posted on the fight club page made me ill. It turned into the personnel Vendetta Page. You should know this Eliot! People tore into you on that page and when I tried to defend you my posts were busted!"
T-Man,
With all due respect, I too have a right to express my opinions. The "private" e mails posted and the responses did make me ill! I wasn't taking sides. This opened up BJFO for the "Battle of the Sites." Arnold did discuss these matters with me prior to and I did voice my concerns as to what the ramifications could be. I even wrote an article about it (The Taking of BJF Online / Pelum 123). Everyone was now game for personal attacks and for no other reason than to hurt each other because of what site they posted on and whose side they claimed to support.
What you did was your business and you had your rights and reasons for what you did. But the fact remains that the Fight Club did turn into a Site vs. Site war.
By the way, I did not mean for my post to read as if it was your post that changed it into a "personal vendetta" page. If that's how you took it, I apologize.
-Cellini
"My concerns kicked in when the "fight club" started. The exposure of private e-mails posted on the fight club page made me ill. It turned into the personnel Vendetta Page. You should know this Eliot! People tore into you on that page and when I tried to defend you my posts were busted!"
T-Man,
With all due respect, I too have a right to express my opinions. The "private" e mails posted and the responses did make me ill! I wasn't taking sides. This opened up BJFO for the "Battle of the Sites." Arnold did discuss these matters with me prior to and I did voice my concerns as to what the ramifications could be. I even wrote an article about it (The Taking of BJF Online / Pelum 123). Everyone was now game for personal attacks and for no other reason than to hurt each other because of what site they posted on and whose side they claimed to support.
What you did was your business and you had your rights and reasons for what you did. But the fact remains that the Fight Club did turn into a Site vs. Site war.
By the way, I did not mean for my post to read as if it was your post that changed it into a "personal vendetta" page. If that's how you took it, I apologize.
-Cellini
For ME the Unknowing
whew! I must have missed these posts. Why would you post someones personal email? You must have a good reason. And Celli, how do you figure it was a war between sites? I thought it was every man for himself, just nuckle dusters over leather gloves? And the site is toast because of that? I thouhg it was just a new direction?
whew! I must have missed these posts. Why would you post someones personal email? You must have a good reason. And Celli, how do you figure it was a war between sites? I thought it was every man for himself, just nuckle dusters over leather gloves? And the site is toast because of that? I thouhg it was just a new direction?
Slowhand - Fight Club
I wouldn't say the fight club was the cause for the demise of the site but it didn't help. I heard it first handed that most every computer literate surveillance and floor person in the U.S. was monitoring that page, laughing while writing down as much information as the accusers were willing to spit out in anger. Both the sin net and the Griffin alerts were pouring like Niagara Falls. People were being made (or had for that matter) because one person would post "Hey SXXXXXXX, I saw you at the Golden Nugget last night at 8PM playing on table 44, your basic sucks. Give up loser."
How such comments could be considered helpful or useful is a mystery to me. And to think it all went down hill from there. Even Jesus wasn't spared from the wrath of the Fight Club.
I still enjoy a two way friendship with Arnold and always will. There is no bad blood over there between any of the regulars, the posters, moderators, etc. It's possible that the site was over taxed, over worked, and underpaid. That site took a lot of time from a lot of people just to stay afloat. It was a very fast paced site.
BIA,
-Cellini
I wouldn't say the fight club was the cause for the demise of the site but it didn't help. I heard it first handed that most every computer literate surveillance and floor person in the U.S. was monitoring that page, laughing while writing down as much information as the accusers were willing to spit out in anger. Both the sin net and the Griffin alerts were pouring like Niagara Falls. People were being made (or had for that matter) because one person would post "Hey SXXXXXXX, I saw you at the Golden Nugget last night at 8PM playing on table 44, your basic sucks. Give up loser."
How such comments could be considered helpful or useful is a mystery to me. And to think it all went down hill from there. Even Jesus wasn't spared from the wrath of the Fight Club.
I still enjoy a two way friendship with Arnold and always will. There is no bad blood over there between any of the regulars, the posters, moderators, etc. It's possible that the site was over taxed, over worked, and underpaid. That site took a lot of time from a lot of people just to stay afloat. It was a very fast paced site.
BIA,
-Cellini
Rob
That's what it started out being but then people started to selectively defend people then go back to their site of origin and stir the troops up.
Then I heard (after the fact) that certain people's posts were getting bumped only because of who they were or who they were defending. I don't know if this was true or not. In all fairness I did hear it more than a few times. I once altered a post because the gentleman was giving up too much of his own personal information. In fact I think it was LTC that pointed it out to me. The gentleman later thanked me/us for covering him.
Too much, too fast, and too far maybe?
That's what it started out being but then people started to selectively defend people then go back to their site of origin and stir the troops up.
Then I heard (after the fact) that certain people's posts were getting bumped only because of who they were or who they were defending. I don't know if this was true or not. In all fairness I did hear it more than a few times. I once altered a post because the gentleman was giving up too much of his own personal information. In fact I think it was LTC that pointed it out to me. The gentleman later thanked me/us for covering him.
Too much, too fast, and too far maybe?
Fight club was brutal
The arguements were rediculous. Every one criticizing each other for anything and everything. This is what the page was for,I guess, to release wasted life energy. It made me wonder if the fight club posters ever made it to the tables to play? There were threats and postal mutilations. It was verbally bloody. It surprised me because most of them have high IQ's. Yet they were very cruel to each other. It's like I always say with genuise you get a little insanity. I just hope the site comes back up without the fight club.
The arguements were rediculous. Every one criticizing each other for anything and everything. This is what the page was for,I guess, to release wasted life energy. It made me wonder if the fight club posters ever made it to the tables to play? There were threats and postal mutilations. It was verbally bloody. It surprised me because most of them have high IQ's. Yet they were very cruel to each other. It's like I always say with genuise you get a little insanity. I just hope the site comes back up without the fight club.
Re: Slowhand - Fight Club *LINK* *PIC*
Celli, as a moderator at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blackjackcardcounterscafe/
I have been thru all of this previously, and ended up having to send people that wanted war to other sites, one set up particularly for that, BJ Flame Wars, and when things cooled down, the non-bj board here for spats over religion, politics, and what color Madonnas panties are today. I thought it was wise to create such a place on BJF board too, but never knew that people were exposing other players. I've seen all of that before from people that like to keep certain info and games to themselves. Making $$ can be a very serious business, and people can get nasty. There was an actual death threat posted here if I am not mistaken during one of these spats. It shows you how out of whack a person can get themselves when their blood boils. We are all in shock when we hear Johnny killed Bobby for a $5 bill. Well, that is where things can head.
If the Counter Cops were at BJFOL then they are hear, and everywhere.
Aside from all of the fight club, I figured that Anthony wanted to switch lanes and head out onto the Internet Casino Super Highway, and you ol' boys that like the black greasy dirt found on casino chips under your nails, would not want to be a part of that. He jumped for the brass ring, and is hanging onto it with one pinky finger now. We'll see if he can pull himself into it or slip right off into the safety net. I have found that before you changes lanes, you should signal FIRST, and he didn't bother to do that, and that is why we are all left wondering what the hell happened. There are skid marks all over the road, but damned if we can find any bodies or cars left. Was it the Blackjack RAPTURE?? laugh But you, oh messenger from the grave, speak freely, once again separating yourself from the clique. Thanks for caring. We are more than just a book buying public. More than simple people looking for an edge...
"We are more than conquerors!"
Celli, as a moderator at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blackjackcardcounterscafe/
I have been thru all of this previously, and ended up having to send people that wanted war to other sites, one set up particularly for that, BJ Flame Wars, and when things cooled down, the non-bj board here for spats over religion, politics, and what color Madonnas panties are today. I thought it was wise to create such a place on BJF board too, but never knew that people were exposing other players. I've seen all of that before from people that like to keep certain info and games to themselves. Making $$ can be a very serious business, and people can get nasty. There was an actual death threat posted here if I am not mistaken during one of these spats. It shows you how out of whack a person can get themselves when their blood boils. We are all in shock when we hear Johnny killed Bobby for a $5 bill. Well, that is where things can head.
If the Counter Cops were at BJFOL then they are hear, and everywhere.
Aside from all of the fight club, I figured that Anthony wanted to switch lanes and head out onto the Internet Casino Super Highway, and you ol' boys that like the black greasy dirt found on casino chips under your nails, would not want to be a part of that. He jumped for the brass ring, and is hanging onto it with one pinky finger now. We'll see if he can pull himself into it or slip right off into the safety net. I have found that before you changes lanes, you should signal FIRST, and he didn't bother to do that, and that is why we are all left wondering what the hell happened. There are skid marks all over the road, but damned if we can find any bodies or cars left. Was it the Blackjack RAPTURE?? laugh But you, oh messenger from the grave, speak freely, once again separating yourself from the clique. Thanks for caring. We are more than just a book buying public. More than simple people looking for an edge...
"We are more than conquerors!"
Fight Club served a function
As "Learning to count" said, the Fight Club page was a release valve for excess energy. It always reminded me of a verse from "A Simple Song of Freedom," by Bobby Darin:
"Now, no doubt some folks enjoy doin' battle
Like presidents, prime ministers and kings
So, let's all build them shelves
Where they can fight among themselves
And leave the people be who love to sing."
My subjective impression was that the quality of the discussion on the other pages improved after Fight Club was established, because a lot of the garbage went to FC.
As "Learning to count" said, the Fight Club page was a release valve for excess energy. It always reminded me of a verse from "A Simple Song of Freedom," by Bobby Darin:
"Now, no doubt some folks enjoy doin' battle
Like presidents, prime ministers and kings
So, let's all build them shelves
Where they can fight among themselves
And leave the people be who love to sing."
My subjective impression was that the quality of the discussion on the other pages improved after Fight Club was established, because a lot of the garbage went to FC.
Mac
My Scottish cousin! How are yee lad??
Drop your rooster and grab yur wife,
Come on o'er, have the time o yer life
Roll up yer sleeves and get ye drrrink
Call me a bastard, I'll call you a fink
Ya see, that's life, that's the way that it is
The world is a stage, and it's all just show biz
Cuz at the end of the day, me lassies and lads
Ye should be happy, not complacent or sad
If ya went thrrrrough yur day with yur tail tween yur legs
And your ankles are sore from walkin on eggs
Then deep in side yur not really a man
Fur holdin yur tongue, when ya shoulda said somethan'
IMO:
Being politically correct is not superior or inferior to speaking your mind.
My Scottish cousin! How are yee lad??
Drop your rooster and grab yur wife,
Come on o'er, have the time o yer life
Roll up yer sleeves and get ye drrrink
Call me a bastard, I'll call you a fink
Ya see, that's life, that's the way that it is
The world is a stage, and it's all just show biz
Cuz at the end of the day, me lassies and lads
Ye should be happy, not complacent or sad
If ya went thrrrrough yur day with yur tail tween yur legs
And your ankles are sore from walkin on eggs
Then deep in side yur not really a man
Fur holdin yur tongue, when ya shoulda said somethan'
IMO:
Being politically correct is not superior or inferior to speaking your mind.